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Chronic...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I assume you have considered that it is the Christ that god sends to everyone? The one that tells you who you are or gives you insight into who you are? Jesus may be an example of what a Christ is, or a myth about how one comes to see the Christ and become one with it.


We group letter sounds into "words" so we can discuss matters.

What lies behind the letter-sounds God and Christ?


God is the word for that which gives meaning to your life, the ground of your being according to Paul Tillich. If you start out with something finite, you will often find that your god is too small. The Christ is that which illuminates your understanding or insights within yourself.
 
Posts: 9068 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
Chronic...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I was just going to ask if anyone had seen you and then here you are!


Shot her an email and she says she is doing "about the same". She is having trouble remembering how to post here, and I don't expect that she will be here often enough to remember.

Oh, and she is going to try to reach Steve/yba. She says he just had cataract surgery and is anxious to see how things went.


My surger is scheduled at the end of the month, I hope he is doing as well as I did with my first! And glad to see she is reaching out to yba!
 
Posts: 9068 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
For me conformal group physics...


As you'd know mathematically, of course, it would have been impossible for my Confirmation Bias and me to ignore CONFORMal in that.

However it did remind us of something we saw many years ago, a breakdown of events leading to an aircraft crash. A multitude of unrelated events including, if we remember correctly, a head cold which caused a mechanic to miss something he otherwise would have noted automatically, combined from days ahead to ensure the crash would be inevitable.

Reminds us, too, of the one objection we have to Rose Tyler meeting her Mum and Dad in another dimension, or Red Dwarf's Dave Lister encountering himself in the same way (and, indeed, becoming his own father in what seems a highly incestuous manner).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Lister

Given the mathematics involved in a single bout of intercourse, how it would be possible for the same sperm to join with the same ovum every time over billions of years? So we will never meet our counterpart in any other dimension, right?

We are well aware of the orthodox view of Graham Hancock, however I see him as a fellow reporter and have no real issues with him. Don't remember noticing it in his earlier books, but can highly recommend his Supernatural because he goes to extremes to make sure the reader knows exactly what is fact and what is his assessment and that of others.

You might enjoy the maths in his (and Frick's) suggestion our DNA is far too involved to have come into being over the relatively few million years between when our planet became capable of supporting life and when the first life appears.

Panspermia Rules OK

Nagel's teleological consciousness, ancient theoxeny/hospitality/portent/divination ideas related to cataclysms...

For me, the notion of caring for the stranger at one's gate had to come long after we started farming them went into trading economies. Those strangers, and the goods they traded, would have been seen as essential for profit.

I have one reservation, though. Göbekli Tepe, along with the Australian corroborees and the once-a-year neutrality of pre-Mohammed Mecca (leave your spears at the door before entering) show that tribes could meet in this way. Makes one wonder, though, how they knew of the need to ensure a spread of genes.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 2446 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
This quite imperfect human was created via probabilties. Nobody smart fine tuned anything; it's just the math of probabilities.


Have to disagree with you there, as you are indeed fine-tuned compared with countless other beings.

Think of anyone born in the Sudan, for example.

Certainly few there to provide the fine tuning.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 2446 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Constant...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
For me conformal group physics...


As you'd know mathematically, of course, it would have been impossible for my Confirmation Bias and me to ignore CONFORMal in that.


For mathematical physics, the confirming is all a numbers game. I do it here:

http://vixra.org/pdf/1611.0030v2.pdf

I worked with cellular automata for optical test at IBM so my confirming method is unique for the world of physics but it is still all numbers. Things like Nagel's teleology and Pauli/Jung's synchronicity are just kind of added things to be curious about in relation to my favorite math idea. It's like my theoxeny/hospitiality/portent/cataclysm/divination ideas via myths/Bible don't depend on matching it to the History of Herodotus but Herodotus is an added thing I'm curious about.

quote:

Reminds us, too, of the one objection we have to Rose Tyler meeting her Mum and Dad in another dimension, or Red Dwarf's Dave Lister encountering himself in the same way (and, indeed, becoming his own father in what seems a highly incestuous manner).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Lister


Yeah Sci-fi can certainly have loose ends problems but the grandfather paradox problem is actually solved via David Deutsch (and my favorite model's author does reference Deutsch):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox

quote:
Physicist David Deutsch has argued that quantum computation with a negative delay—backwards time travel—produces only self-consistent solutions, and the chronology-violating region imposes constraints that are not apparent through classical reasoning.[22] In 2014, researchers published a simulation validating Deutsch's model with photons.[23] Deutsch uses the terminology of "multiple universes" in his paper in an effort to express the quantum phenomena, but notes that this terminology is unsatisfactory. Others have taken this to mean that "Deutschian time travel" involves multiple universes in order to resolve the grandfather paradox.


quote:
Given the mathematics involved in a single bout of intercourse, how it would be possible for the same sperm to join with the same ovum every time over billions of years? So we will never meet our counterpart in any other dimension, right?

We are well aware of the orthodox view of Graham Hancock, however I see him as a fellow reporter and have no real issues with him. Don't remember noticing it in his earlier books, but can highly recommend his Supernatural because he goes to extremes to make sure the reader knows exactly what is fact and what is his assessment and that of others.

You might enjoy the maths in his (and Frick's) suggestion our DNA is far too involved to have come into being over the relatively few million years between when our planet became capable of supporting life and when the first life appears.

Panspermia Rules OK


Oh I love Panspermia. For me the black death (and various historical plagues) are actually viruses arrived via comet fragment. Life on earth itself started that way too; basically comets do a lot of subtle things at just the right time via the conformal group implementation of Jungian sychronicity. Now this pushes the question back to how did the comet fragments get their viruses? It's something to be curious about, I don't even remember reading about that in modern channeling.

quote:
Nagel's teleological consciousness, ancient theoxeny/hospitality/portent/divination ideas related to cataclysms...

For me, the notion of caring for the stranger at one's gate had to come long after we started farming them went into trading economies. Those strangers, and the goods they traded, would have been seen as essential for profit.

I have one reservation, though. Göbekli Tepe, along with the Australian corroborees and the once-a-year neutrality of pre-Mohammed Mecca (leave your spears at the door before entering) show that tribes could meet in this way. Makes one wonder, though, how they knew of the need to ensure a spread of genes.


Well even animals know how to spread genes just fine. I do think the Greeks (Pythagoras is suspected of being into Zoroastrianism) and Judaism (Abraham and Akhenaten/Nefertiti monotheism probably both were via Zoroastrianism) I think get hospitality via Zoroastrianism:

http://www.iranicaonline.org/a...-i-historical-review

quote:
Worship of the deities was ritually performed through the yasna. Originally this was a complex ritual that involved the offering of a sacrifice (food) and the sacred haoma (drink). Modeled on rites of hospitality, the yasna was an elaborate festive meal to which a deity or deities were invited as honored guests. The deity was offered food and drink, and was entertained through the recitation of poetry created for the occasion to magnify the divine guest. The poet was called a mąθrān (cf. OInd. mantrín-), that is, one who creates sacred poetry (mąθra-). The yašts of the Avesta are collections of such poetry (see Thieme, 1957).


I think it's the deity who was really really being appeased originally so they don't get so wrathful as that Clube-Napier giant comet was breaking up. Modern channeling is still warning about comet fragments associated with ice age cycles and we don't even have a breaking up giant one in the mix right now. They were so walking on eggshells that the stranger got seen as possibly a deity in disguise.

Yeah after the Younger Dryas event broke up the last of the Clube-Napier giant comet, the concept could certainly get diverted for other uses related to nomadic Indo-European groups franchising new areas.
 
Posts: 997 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
Constant...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
This quite imperfect human was created via probabilties. Nobody smart fine tuned anything; it's just the math of probabilities.


Have to disagree with you there, as you are indeed fine-tuned compared with countless other beings.

Think of anyone born in the Sudan, for example.

Certainly few there to provide the fine tuning.


It's all relative, compared to timeless ancestors in the Dream Time like maybe Julius Caesar, our behavior isn't optimal yet and Julius Caesar had behavior that would not do for one step below Brahman much less Brahman. Going after corruption like Caesar did for the Jews and others was good for its time (and would be even for our time) but it's not an ideal for the future.

So what is the ideal for the next step? Well since you like Hinduism let's look in that context:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Yantra

quote:
The worship of the Sri Yantra is central to the Shri Vidya system of Hindu worship. It represents the goddess in the form of Shri Lalita or Tripura Sundari, the beauty of the three worlds: Bhu Loka (Physical Plane, Consciousness of the Physical Plane), Bhuvar Loka (Antariksha or Intermediate Space, Consciousness of the Prana) and Swar Loka (Svarga or Heaven or Consciousness of the Divine Mind). The Sri Yantra is the symbol of Hindu tantra, which is based on the Hindu philosophy of Kashmir Shivaism. The Sri Yantra is the object of devotion in Sri Vidya.


We may be the highest example of the Bhu Loka physical plane but we still have to get to the Bhuvar Loka intermediate space. The math of the Sri Yantra, Sefirot, Enneagram, and Wheel of Life (Buhhism) is the conformal group. It's a different system than physics of course but it's the exact same information theory. I first got into the conformal group via Jung's personality theory; same math just a different system.

For the 2-dim Sri Yantra/Sefirot; one axis is the physical-spiritual (consciousness) one and the other as explained better via the Sefirot is an inward/outward one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefirot

quote:
The most important and well known scheme of depicting the sefirot arranges them as a tree with 3 columns. The Right column represents the spiritual force of expansion. The Left represents its opposite, restriction. The Middle column is the balance and synthesis between these opposing tendencies.


Spiritually this restriction is a service to self thing while the expansion is a service to others thing. For physics, by the way this axis is the outer spacetime dimensions vs the inner charge space dimensions. There are very interesting parallels for the use of information theory for different systems (for personality this axis represents personalities into perfecting niches vs exploring multiple things).

What the Sri Yantra and Sefirot are saying is that beings do polarize to service to self and service to others. Animals have no choice to make and by the time we get to the Sri Yantra intermediate space, the choice is for all practical purposes made; we as individuals in the human species have to individually make our choices (it's not all done in one lifetime aka it's a reincarnation cycle thing).
 
Posts: 997 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah Atlantis wasn't crudely technological like we are. They basically used just sound and consciousness in an "anti-gravity" way very much like Edward Leedskalnin and Coral Castle (related to conformal group physics). Also Atlantis was more like NATO aka an agreement between different groups (basically Aryans, Native Americans, and an aborigine group related to how people in India look today).


I'd love some sources on this please, bluelamp.

Given the period, it fits well with Oppenheimer's Indonesia proposal, which is supported by others.

http://atlantipedia.ie/samples...stephen-oppenheimer/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 2446 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Settling in...
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Well if you go back over 12000 years ago it wouldn't surprise me if Atlantis/Stonehenge/pyramid people had better "sonic screwdriver-like" technology than we do!


I deliberately avoid using the letter-grouping Atlantis as, for me, the mythology does not work.

Have seen plenty of such reports, however the only concept I have been able to accept is Oppenheimer's hypothesis of a relatively advanced civilisation which was wiped out when the seas rose at the end of the Ice Age. Have never seen anything which indicates a space-age civilisation in the past, given that we date **** sapiens as far back as 300,000 years.

I associate those glazed areas in the likes of the Gobi to the Greek legend of Phaethon losing control of the immortal steeds and the sun-chariot veering out of control setting the earth ablaze. The plains of Africa were scorched to desert.
http://www.theoi.com/Titan/Phaethon.html


Yeah Atlantis wasn't crudely technological like we are. They basically used just sound and consciousness in an "anti-gravity" way very much like Edward Leedskalnin and Coral Castle (related to conformal group physics). Also Atlantis was more like NATO aka an agreement between different groups (basically Aryans, Native Americans, and an aborigine group related to how people in India look today).

Right after the Younger Dryas event, they kind of broke up into circle people (Stonehenge-like) and Pyramid people (Egypt and South America). They kind of quickly lost their sound technology post cataclysm; maybe scattered groups remembered but then they faded away and so did the technology. Stonehenge and pyramid building is much much easier with "sonic screwdriver"-like technology.


I have some stories from that period, but I also understand it's much further back in time too.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bryan j borich
 
Posts: 475 | Location: CA | Mbr Since: 05-02-2017Report This Post
Settling in...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
... The one that tells you who you are or gives you insight into who you are? Jesus may be an example of what a Christ is, or a myth about how one comes to see the Christ and become one with it.


That is what entheogens are for :-)


Entheogens are in essence like walkers for babies.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bryan j borich
 
Posts: 475 | Location: CA | Mbr Since: 05-02-2017Report This Post
Constant...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah Atlantis wasn't crudely technological like we are. They basically used just sound and consciousness in an "anti-gravity" way very much like Edward Leedskalnin and Coral Castle (related to conformal group physics). Also Atlantis was more like NATO aka an agreement between different groups (basically Aryans, Native Americans, and an aborigine group related to how people in India look today).


I'd love some sources on this please, bluelamp.

Given the period, it fits well with Oppenheimer's Indonesia proposal, which is supported by others.

http://atlantipedia.ie/samples...stephen-oppenheimer/


Before getting into the modern channeling; I'll try to make the case without channeling as a source. Much of what I say has channeling as one of the sources but I usually try to stick to the non-channeling case.

I was into conformal group physics for about 8 years before finding it discussed in modern channeling. I didn't need modern channeling to like or confirm the conformal group for physics but modern channeling for me was something to be very curious about; I kind of in general just sprout out to checking out things related to the conformal group simply because I like the conformal group for technical information theory related reasons.

For Coral Castle there is this:

http://coralcastle.com/

quote:
To this day, no one knows how Ed created the Coral Castle. Built under the cover of night and in secret, at a time when there were no modern construction conveniences, Ed would only say that he knew "the secret of the pyramids." When he died, his secrets died with him, and to this day scientists and thinkers still debate Ed's methods...

Features of the Coral Castle Museum include a 9-ton gate that moves with just a touch of the finger, a Polaris telescope and functioning rocking chairs – all made entirely of stone.

We wonder what was the inspiration that could cause a man to spend 28 years to carve a Coral Castle from the ground up using nothing but home made tools. An homage to unrequited love? Perhaps to illustrate ancient sciences that defy gravity? Or maybe just sheer, raw human determination?

The Coral Castle is an everlasting mystery to those who explore it...


There's no problem with the Indonesia Sunda Shelf being a sunk island part of Atlantis but if you trace things like language and the pyramid/monolith technology, the picture can get bigger. One of the people checking out the modern channeling is a University of Arizona anthropologist (with an expertise in linguistics); I'll quote him since he's an expert in the area even without the channeling data:

quote:
In general, it looks as though the Atlantean civilization covered most of the northern hemisphere, with the Paranthas generally in southern Eurasia, the Kantekkians in northern Eurasia once they established themselves... and the 'Native Americans' occupying the area in between and also including the Americas. South America being the only place in the southern hemisphere (besides Antarctica, see below) that may be indirectly connected to Atlantis -- the other present-day continents such as Africa and Australia and their native populations are never mentioned in this context. As I mentioned in the Kantek thread, I have a working hypothesis that northeastern Eurasia (where Nostratic languages are primarily spoken but where there is a general Asian phenotype) was a place of intense contact between Kantekkians and the 'Native American' Atlanteans, although I haven't ruled out the possibility of Lemurian descendants being in the mix somehow as well.
 
Posts: 997 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
Constant...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Have seen plenty of such reports, however the only concept I have been able to accept is Oppenheimer's hypothesis of a relatively advanced civilisation which was wiped out when the seas rose at the end of the Ice Age. Have never seen anything which indicates a space-age civilisation in the past, given that we date **** sapiens as far back as 300,000 years.

Right after the Younger Dryas event, they kind of broke up into circle people (Stonehenge-like) and Pyramid people (Egypt and South America). They kind of quickly lost their sound technology post cataclysm; maybe scattered groups remembered but then they faded away and so did the technology. Stonehenge and pyramid building is much much easier with "sonic screwdriver"-like technology.


I have some stories from that period, but I also understand it's much further back in time too.


Kind of semantics maybe but the "Lemurian" instead of "Atlantis" of my previous note would be going back 300,000 years.
 
Posts: 997 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
Constant...
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
... The one that tells you who you are or gives you insight into who you are? Jesus may be an example of what a Christ is, or a myth about how one comes to see the Christ and become one with it.


That is what entheogens are for :-)


Entheogens are in essence like walkers for babies.


Brutal but true. I tend to think of a bunch of men trying to cheat to get as good as the women after men started trying to compete with women for the role of psychopomp.
 
Posts: 997 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Entheogens are in essence like walkers for babies.


Orthodox thinkers have no option but to say that.

Off to college to see when they want me to start.

See y'all.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 2446 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
... The one that tells you who you are or gives you insight into who you are? Jesus may be an example of what a Christ is, or a myth about how one comes to see the Christ and become one with it.


That is what entheogens are for :-)


Entheogens are in essence like walkers for babies.


Brutal but true. I tend to think of a bunch of men trying to cheat to get as good as the women after men started trying to compete with women for the role of psychopomp.


Problem with that, of course, is that it was the women who knew and understood plants and fungi long before the men did. So who taught whom?

Now I have to go.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 2446 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Constant...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
... The one that tells you who you are or gives you insight into who you are? Jesus may be an example of what a Christ is, or a myth about how one comes to see the Christ and become one with it.


That is what entheogens are for :-)


Entheogens are in essence like walkers for babies.


Brutal but true. I tend to think of a bunch of men trying to cheat to get as good as the women after men started trying to compete with women for the role of psychopomp.


Problem with that, of course, is that it was the women who knew and understood plants and fungi long before the men did. So who taught whom?

Now I have to go.


So the original psychopomp was a "fun guy" Smile   :)
 
Posts: 997 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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Hello to all,
I haven’t been on for a while (if ever). Some of you I remember but others are new to me so I’ll Introduce myself.
I’m Jean Jones, a Christian who believes the Bible is the one and only book that is a revelation from God in heaven written by holy men inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is my one prejudice I think. If you see more please tell me for I’m far from perfect.
I believe the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. One of the reasons I believe is because In Luke 11:47-51 When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees he said, :”For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'
Now Zechariah was a human being who lived on earth and if Abel was only a myth this makes no sense. Why would Jesus hold them responsible for the death of a myth, no Abel also was a human being who lived on earth.
Allan: Jesus 1, Paul 0, although I could give reason from Paul and Jude as well.
I’m not Christian right but am very liberal in my politics.
I don’t pretend to be right and all else is wrong. I’ve been proved wrong too may times. If some believe differently that I do, I say let’s discuss it. They may have insight that I don’t. I’ve found that out by talking with some on Amazon and reading books of liberal Christians and speaking with a few atheists as well.
I’m 86 and they took my car away from me so I’m home bound most of the time. Bummer. I was born in Battle Creek, Michigan, but now I’m living in Redding, California but may be moving to Monroe, Washington later this year. Time will tell.

jean jones


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j m jones
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Redding California | Mbr Since: 05-02-2017Report This Post
Freshie...
Picture of mary spaulding
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Entheogens are in essence like walkers for babies.


Orthodox thinkers have no option but to say that.

Off to college to see when they want me to start.

See y'all.


What are you doing in college? Teaching or Mentoring?
Good Luck


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
j m jones
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Redding California | Mbr Since: 05-02-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Oh in this case for sure I love waxing Doctor Who as much as Allan. Still can't figure out exactly what Abraham was doing during that critical Amarna period but there are very interesting clues floating around. If only the Doctor could channel me just a couple more little clues.


The only way to understand the Bible's "history" is to accept that the authors understood history in a totally different way from us.

For example, they simply did not have the detailed written records we rely on. As well, time was cyclical for them, not linear as it is for us. That makes an enormous difference in understanding.

It is only natural that, over time, certain events will be similar to others in the past, and they accepted this as their "reality"; the same events will recur. IMO it is extremely difficult for us to get our heads around in a way that allows us comprehend what a difference there is between their way of thinking and ours.

In addition, *we take a full-world view while their world consisted solely of the region they lived in (though I also think some such as traders did indeed travel far more widely than we credit them).

Some of the discrepancies are obvious. All we need do is look at the reference in the Bible to Ur of the Chaldees. This was written when Ur was controlled by the Chaldeans, however the events referred to actually took place long before the Chaldeans got there.

We make much of that time difference, however it was irrelevant to them.

Some like to see me as an arrogant SOB. However, that is not quite true. Instead, for a very long time I failed to understand the impact of my eclectic reading. In discussions, I took it for granted that everyone else had the same broad reading. Took a long time before I realised this is not the case. Instead, I am in sharp contrast to those who study a subject in depth. They have to go into minute detail, while I quickly get the gist and move on. All too often I pick up relevant bits of information from entirely separate fields which do have an important impact on the field we are discussing. I see examples of this in the wide variety of documentaries I watch each week. Far too much information around for anyone to be fully aware of what has been established. No matter how educated they are in their own field, many experts are not aware of what has been established elsewhere.

I need to find a way of inviting others to accept this. I get my SOB reputation in large part because, as a proof-reader, I automatically correct these errors I spot and do it in a way which antagonises my listener/reader.

I'll get there.

Must now go shopping or I'll have nothing to eat tonight. With luck, will manage to get back in time to respond to earlier posts this evening so they will be there when you all return.

*One of the problems I have here is the stereotypical USA isolationist POV which still applies (cf Donald Trump). I communicated much more easily with Gershom simply because of his European experience.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
j m jones
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Redding California | Mbr Since: 05-02-2017Report This Post
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The only way to understand the Bible's "history" is to accept that the authors understood history in a totally different way from us.

For example, they simply did not have the detailed written records we rely on. As well, time was cyclical for them, not linear as it is for us. That makes an enormous difference in understanding.

It is only natural that, over time, certain events will be similar to others in the past, and they accepted this as their "reality"; the same events will recur. IMO it is extremely difficult for us to get our heads around in a way that allows us comprehend what a difference there is between their way of thinking and ours.

In addition, *we take a full-world view while their world consisted solely of the region they lived in (though I also think some such as traders did indeed travel far more widely than we credit them).

Some of the discrepancies are obvious. All we need do is look at the reference in the Bible to Ur of the Chaldees. This was written when Ur was controlled by the Chaldeans, however the events referred to actually took place long before the Chaldeans got there.


I still can;t figure out how to respond to a post and I did want to respond to this post.

Bible history is just like other history except we know what part God played in what was happening.

I disagree that the Hebrews didn't have written records. Moses wrote in the 1400 BC the whole Pentateuch and they have been writing ever since, not only what is in the Bible but the books mentioned in the Bible that we don't have plus all their writings during the time between the testaments, the DSS, the Agrapha, the Pseuepigrapha (sp).

One more thing: cyclical time not linear. Have you read the Bible (and I know you have). It starts "In the beginning" and goes on from their about God's dealings with his people until about 400 BC the last prophet wrote and the closed the canon. But the New Testament picks up with a new prophet John the Baptist and announces the coming of the Messiah and after his death and resurrection it's about the new people of God, both Jews and Gentiles and finally we have Revelation telling us what will happen from that time (1st Century) until the consummation with the final conflict just before Jesus returns from heaven and we have the 1000 years of peace and safety and then he turns the kingdom over the the Father who creates the new heavens and the new earth.

Very linear wouldn't you say? or not?


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j m jones
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Redding California | Mbr Since: 05-02-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by mary spaulding:
Hello to all,
I haven’t been on for a while (if ever). Some of you I remember but others are new to me so I’ll Introduce myself.
I’m Jean Jones, a Christian who believes the Bible is the one and only book that is a revelation from God in heaven written by holy men inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is my one prejudice I think. If you see more please tell me for I’m far from perfect.
I believe the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. One of the reasons I believe is because In Luke 11:47-51 When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees he said, :”For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'
Now Zechariah was a human being who lived on earth and if Abel was only a myth this makes no sense. Why would Jesus hold them responsible for the death of a myth, no Abel also was a human being who lived on earth.
Allan: Jesus 1, Paul 0, although I could give reason from Paul and Jude as well.
I’m not Christian right but am very liberal in my politics.
I don’t pretend to be right and all else is wrong. I’ve been proved wrong too may times. If some believe differently that I do, I say let’s discuss it. They may have insight that I don’t. I’ve found that out by talking with some on Amazon and reading books of liberal Christians and speaking with a few atheists as well.
I’m 86 and they took my car away from me so I’m home bound most of the time. Bummer. I was born in Battle Creek, Michigan, but now I’m living in Redding, California but may be moving to Monroe, Washington later this year. Time will tell.

jean jones


Hey JJ!

Really good to see you back.

Now about that car... I've finally given mine up. Haven't driven it since about the middle of December because when my back is acting up I have difficulty braking fast and hard enough to stop the car.

Been using a taxi service. Nice. Real nice. I don't have to bother with inspections, tax, tag, insurance, maintenance, gasoline, tires, car wash... Oh, the freedom of it all!

Amazon and Instacart deliver the groceries, cat food, and household supplies. I use a taxi for doctor appointments and take-out. I order my meds online. It just couldn't get more convenient than that could it?

I'm liking it! They all take CC so I write fewer checks throughout the month. Try it, you might like it too!

Now, about that literal stuff. You and I are just gonna have to agree to disagree 'about it 'cause I ain't fightin' that battle with ya anymore. I'm done Bang Head   :banghead:


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Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6226 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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