quote:

Originally posted by bluelamp:
So the original psychopomp was a "fun guy"

quote:

Originally posted by mary spaulding:
One more thing: cyclical time not linear. Have you read the Bible (and I know you have). It starts "In the beginning" and goes on from their about God's dealings with his people until about 400 BC the last prophet wrote and the closed the canon. But the New Testament picks up with a new prophet John the Baptist and announces the coming of the Messiah and after his death and resurrection it's about the new people of God, both Jews and Gentiles and finally we have Revelation telling us what will happen from that time (1st Century) until the consummation with the final conflict just before Jesus returns from heaven and we have the 1000 years of peace and safety and then he turns the kingdom over the the Father who creates the new heavens and the new earth.

Very linear wouldn't you say? or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Henry J:
As long as those fun guys don't take up too much room...

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:

quote:

Originally posted by bluelamp:
So the original psychopomp was a "fun guy"

That explains why those authors had to create the neologism entheogen.

We're way ahead of you; both the Hindus and Zarathustra knew the truth, Soma (Haoma) created all our deities.

quote:

Originally posted by bluelamp:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:

Given the period, it fits well with Oppenheimer's Indonesia proposal, which is supported by others.

http://atlantipedia.ie/samples...stephen-oppenheimer/

There's no problem with the Indonesia Sunda Shelf being a sunk island part of Atlantis but if you trace things like language and the pyramid/monolith technology, the picture can get bigger. One of the people checking out the modern channeling is a University of Arizona anthropologist (with an expertise in linguistics)...

quote:

Eden in the East: The Drowned Continent of Southeast Asia

by Stephen Oppenheimer

From Amazon:

quote:

From Kirkus Reviews

In an exhaustively researched and creatively argued reassessment of mankind's origins, British physician Oppenheimer, an expert in tropical pediatrics, contends that the now-submerged area of Southeast Asia was the cradle of ancient civilization. From time to time, scholars from various disciplines have argued for the existence of a vastly old "founder civilization." Among the most famous was Charles Hapgood, who based his theory of a lost seafaring civilization on his analysis of the famous 16th-century "Piri Re'is" maps of the Antarctic land mass. In this tradition, Oppenheimer blends evidence from geology, genetics, linguistics, archaeology, and anthropology to argue persuasively that such a civilization existed on a submerged land mass in Southeast Asia, which geologists call the Sunda shelf. Pointing to geological evidence for the submersion of the shelf by abrupt rises in the sea level about 8,000 years ago, Oppenheimer contends that the coastal cultures of Southeast Asia were drowned by a great flood, reflected in flood mythologies scattered from the ancient Middle East (such as the biblical story of Noah) to Australia and the Americas. According to the author, tantalizing archaeological evidence exists of settlements under a "silt curtain"* left by the sea floods in drowned coastal regions from Southeast Asia to the Middle East, while linguistic markers indicate that languages spread from Southeast Asia to Australia and the Pacific. The shared flood story is one striking example of similar Eurasian myths according to the author; the ancient Middle East and Asia share other myth typologies, conspicuously including creation and Cain and Abel myths, which point to common origins in a progenitor culture. Absorbing, meticulously researched, limpidly written, and authoritative: should be regarded as a groundbreaking study of the remote past of Southeast Asia, and of civilization itself.

Product Description

This book completely changes the established and conventional view of prehistory by relocating the Lost Eden—the world's first civilization—to Southeast Asia. At the end of the Ice Age, Southeast Asia formed a continent twice the size of India, which included Indochina, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Borneo. In Eden in the East, Stephen Oppenheimer puts forward the astonishing argument that here in southeast Asia—rather than in Mesopotamia where it is usually placed—was the lost civilization that fertilized the Great cultures of the Middle East 6,000 years ago. He produces evidence from ethnography, archaeology, oceanography, creation stories, myths, linguistics, and DNA analysis to argue that this founding civilization was destroyed by a catastrophic flood, caused by a rapid rise in the sea level at the end of the last ice age.

This is the same author that was mentioned in the Jan 30, 2010 session -- see also:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/foru....msg132485#msg132485

The book is very good, and is an excellent example of a mainstream source challenging the existing paradigm. While I think that Oppenheimer overreaches a bit in placing the driving force of ancient civilization solely with the peoples of Southeast Asia, he makes a valuable contribution in drawing various lines of evidence together to show that -- far from the Austronesian homeland being Taiwan and involving an improbably difficult and rapid expansion into the Pacific -- the Austronesian homeland was the Dryas Ice Age-era Sunda shelf, which formed a single continent until successive floods (at approximately 14,000, 11,000, and 8,000 years BP) submerged it, leaving the Indonesian archipelago that we see today. A corollary of this is that, instead of Southeast Asian peoples arriving from the west and north and colonizing Southeast Asia a la the Out-of-Africa hypothesis, that they instead were already located in Sundaland in situ during the last Ice Age, and moved instead from Sundaland into Eurasia as their homeland was progressively flooded.

The most interesting part of the book to me was the second half, where Oppenheimer collects a rich array of creation myths and subjects them to typological analysis. I was surprised by how many basic, common themes can be found worldwide which can serve as the basis for reconstruction of a few common motifs. There tends to be quite a bit of commonality between the Eurasian motifs, with less shared by Africa and the Americas, and Oppenheimer argues this is the result of the Southeast Asian maritime expansion across the southern periphery of Eurasian all the way to Mesopotamia. Although this pattern may be amenable to other explanations than Oppenheimer himself presents, the importance of this data lays in the fact that the current mainstream model of global colonization by modern humans can't easily be reconciled with it, so alternative models need to be explored.

*Regarding the "silt curtain", see The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes by Richard Firestone, Allen West, Simon Warwick-Smith.

quote:

posted 02-06-2018 12:05 AM Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by mary spaulding:
Hello to all,
I haven’t been on for a while (if ever). Some of you I remember but others are new to me so I’ll Introduce myself.
I’m Jean Jones, a Christian who believes the Bible is the one and only book that is a revelation from God in heaven written by holy men inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is my one prejudice I think. If you see more please tell me for I’m far from perfect.
I believe the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. One of the reasons I believe is because In Luke 11:47-51 When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees he said, :”For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'
Now Zechariah was a human being who lived on earth and if Abel was only a myth this makes no sense. Why would Jesus hold them responsible for the death of a myth, no Abel also was a human being who lived on earth.
Allan: Jesus 1, Paul 0, although I could give reason from Paul and Jude as well.
I’m not Christian right but am very liberal in my politics.
I don’t pretend to be right and all else is wrong. I’ve been proved wrong too may times. If some believe differently that I do, I say let’s discuss it. They may have insight that I don’t. I’ve found that out by talking with some on Amazon and reading books of liberal Christians and speaking with a few atheists as well.
I’m 86 and they took my car away from me so I’m home bound most of the time. Bummer. I was born in Battle Creek, Michigan, but now I’m living in Redding, California but may be moving to Monroe, Washington later this year. Time will tell.

jean jones



Hey JJ!

Really good to see you back.

Now about that car... I've finally given mine up. Haven't driven it since about the middle of December because when my back is acting up I have difficulty braking fast and hard enough to stop the car.

Been using a taxi service. Nice. Real nice. I don't have to bother with inspections, tax, tag, insurance, maintenance, gasoline, tires, car wash... Oh, the freedom of it all!

Amazon and Instacart deliver the groceries, cat food, and household supplies. I use a taxi for doctor appointments and take-out. I order my meds online. It just couldn't get more convenient than that could it?

I'm liking it! They all take CC so I write fewer checks throughout the month. Try it, you might like it too!

Now, about that literal stuff. You and I are just gonna have to agree to disagree 'about it 'cause I ain't fightin' that battle with ya anymore. I'm done Bang Head

quote:

Originally posted by mary spaulding:
JR.
Please stop banging your head on that post you are giving me a headache..

I don't want to argue with you. I just want people to know where my head is.

I'm content without driving. The last time I drove I was having trouble getting to the brake in time. I was unsure of myself. That had not happened before. I new it was time to hang it up. Now I need to sell my car and get rid of my insurance.

My daughter in Redding and her family are moving to Washington sometime this summer/fall and my daughter who already lives in Washington said that she was going to come down and hire a truck and take me back with her until we can find a place for mom. Somehow the time seems right.

Good bye for now? I still can't figure out hou this works.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:

Orthodox thinkers have no option but to say that.

Off to college to see when they want me to start.

See y'all.

quote:

Originally posted by bluelamp:

quote:

Originally posted by bryan:

quote:

Originally posted by bluelamp:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
Have seen plenty of such reports, however the only concept I have been able to accept is Oppenheimer's hypothesis of a relatively advanced civilisation which was wiped out when the seas rose at the end of the Ice Age. Have never seen anything which indicates a space-age civilisation in the past, given that we date **** sapiens as far back as 300,000 years.

Right after the Younger Dryas event, they kind of broke up into circle people (Stonehenge-like) and Pyramid people (Egypt and South America). They kind of quickly lost their sound technology post cataclysm; maybe scattered groups remembered but then they faded away and so did the technology. Stonehenge and pyramid building is much much easier with "sonic screwdriver"-like technology.

I have some stories from that period, but I also understand it's much further back in time too.

Kind of semantics maybe but the "Lemurian" instead of "Atlantis" of my previous note would be going back 300,000 years.

quote:

Originally posted by mary spaulding:
The only way to understand the Bible's "history" is to accept that the authors understood history in a totally different way from us.

For example, they simply did not have the detailed written records we rely on. As well, time was cyclical for them, not linear as it is for us. That makes an enormous difference in understanding.

It is only natural that, over time, certain events will be similar to others in the past, and they accepted this as their "reality"; the same events will recur. IMO it is extremely difficult for us to get our heads around in a way that allows us comprehend what a difference there is between their way of thinking and ours.

In addition, *we take a full-world view while their world consisted solely of the region they lived in (though I also think some such as traders did indeed travel far more widely than we credit them).

Some of the discrepancies are obvious. All we need do is look at the reference in the Bible to Ur of the Chaldees. This was written when Ur was controlled by the Chaldeans, however the events referred to actually took place long before the Chaldeans got there.


I still can;t figure out how to respond to a post and I did want to respond to this post.

Bible history is just like other history except we know what part God played in what was happening.

I disagree that the Hebrews didn't have written records. Moses wrote in the 1400 BC the whole Pentateuch and they have been writing ever since, not only what is in the Bible but the books mentioned in the Bible that we don't have plus all their writings during the time between the testaments, the DSS, the Agrapha, the Pseuepigrapha (sp).

One more thing: cyclical time not linear. Have you read the Bible (and I know you have). It starts "In the beginning" and goes on from their about God's dealings with his people until about 400 BC the last prophet wrote and the closed the canon. But the New Testament picks up with a new prophet John the Baptist and announces the coming of the Messiah and after his death and resurrection it's about the new people of God, both Jews and Gentiles and finally we have Revelation telling us what will happen from that time (1st Century) until the consummation with the final conflict just before Jesus returns from heaven and we have the 1000 years of peace and safety and then he turns the kingdom over the the Father who creates the new heavens and the new earth.

Very linear wouldn't you say? or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Henry J:
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

In summer school.

quote:

Originally posted by bluelamp:

For me conformal group physics, Jung-Pauli synchronicity, Nagel's teleological consciousness, ancient theoxeny/hospitality/portent/divination ideas related to cataclysms, the order of magnitude for what actually did happen (aka the numbers game gave us billions not millions or trillions for both the age of a sun and the development of consciousness), and modern channeling all combine to make an interesting case. For me it often comes down to if the conformal group can handle it, I keep it as a favorite idea for research.

quote:

What/Who created the script Doctor Who read by tape to Sally Sparrow in "Blink"? Some things are just eternally built into the fabric of a universe state to be summed over by path integrals subtly giving you your probabilities in the present.

quote:

Originally posted by mary spaulding:
Hello to all,
I haven’t been on for a while (if ever). Some of you I remember but others are new to me so I’ll Introduce myself.
I’m Jean Jones, a Christian who believes the Bible is the one and only book that is a revelation from God in heaven written by holy men inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is my one prejudice I think. If you see more please tell me for I’m far from perfect.
I believe the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. One of the reasons I believe is because In Luke 11:47-51 When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees he said, :”For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'
Now Zechariah was a human being who lived on earth and if Abel was only a myth this makes no sense. Why would Jesus hold them responsible for the death of a myth, no Abel also was a human being who lived on earth.
Allan: Jesus 1, Paul 0, although I could give reason from Paul and Jude as well.
I’m not Christian right but am very liberal in my politics.
I don’t pretend to be right and all else is wrong. I’ve been proved wrong too may times. If some believe differently that I do, I say let’s discuss it. They may have insight that I don’t. I’ve found that out by talking with some on Amazon and reading books of liberal Christians and speaking with a few atheists as well.
I’m 86 and they took my car away from me so I’m home bound most of the time. Bummer. I was born in Battle Creek, Michigan, but now I’m living in Redding, California but may be moving to Monroe, Washington later this year. Time will tell.

jean jones

quote:

Originally posted by That JR Thang:

quote:

Originally posted by mary spaulding:
Hello to all,
I haven’t been on for a while (if ever). Some of you I remember but others are new to me so I’ll Introduce myself.
I’m Jean Jones, a Christian who believes the Bible is the one and only book that is a revelation from God in heaven written by holy men inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is my one prejudice I think. If you see more please tell me for I’m far from perfect.
I believe the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. One of the reasons I believe is because In Luke 11:47-51 When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees he said, :”For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'
Now Zechariah was a human being who lived on earth and if Abel was only a myth this makes no sense. Why would Jesus hold them responsible for the death of a myth, no Abel also was a human being who lived on earth.
Allan: Jesus 1, Paul 0, although I could give reason from Paul and Jude as well.
I’m not Christian right but am very liberal in my politics.
I don’t pretend to be right and all else is wrong. I’ve been proved wrong too may times. If some believe differently that I do, I say let’s discuss it. They may have insight that I don’t. I’ve found that out by talking with some on Amazon and reading books of liberal Christians and speaking with a few atheists as well.
I’m 86 and they took my car away from me so I’m home bound most of the time. Bummer. I was born in Battle Creek, Michigan, but now I’m living in Redding, California but may be moving to Monroe, Washington later this year. Time will tell.

jean jones

Hey JJ!

Really good to see you back.

Now about that car... I've finally given mine up. Haven't driven it since about the middle of December because when my back is acting up I have difficulty braking fast and hard enough to stop the car.

Been using a taxi service. Nice. Real nice. I don't have to bother with inspections, tax, tag, insurance, maintenance, gasoline, tires, car wash... Oh, the freedom of it all!

Amazon and Instacart deliver the groceries, cat food, and household supplies. I use a taxi for doctor appointments and take-out. I order my meds online. It just couldn't get more convenient than that could it?

I'm liking it! They all take CC so I write fewer checks throughout the month. Try it, you might like it too!

Now, about that literal stuff. You and I are just gonna have to agree to disagree 'about it 'cause I ain't fightin' that battle with ya anymore. I'm done