|Here to stay...|
Paul certainly seemed to think he had the same vision of a martyred leader as the James gang (with Cephas and John) and Dan Unterbrink has a view for who that could be historically:
But as our Judaswasjames liked to mention, Paul may not have overly stayed a James gang fan and even began to think his vision was actually of a gentile on a tropaeum:
The Gospels would then kind of redo a Julius Caesar passion play with a generic Jewish martyr in place of Caesar. I suspect Paul was OK with the play as a Gentile/Jew morph but it was not supposed to be literal history except in a loose historical fiction sense for Julius Caesar and Judas of Galilee. Carrier has mentioned that Luke/Acts could be historical fiction.
Paul taught in former Caesarean colonies and likely took over Hellenistic churches descended from Divus Julius churches. Caesar himself was into the Stoic Posidonius and Caesar's army was considered the source of Mithraism (kind of a folk religion version of Stoicism). Not surprising that Paul would have Hellenistic aspects as well as Jewish ones. Caesar was very much a messiah for the Jews in the Cyrus the Great-like sense.
These ideas trace back through Socrates and Zoroaster, then back Allan-like to Shamanism if you go back far enough.
Interesting you referenced Zarathustra and Paul earlier, given that Zarathustra said haoma created our gods, and Paul certain had an entheogenic experience on his road to Qumran.
This takes Zarathustra even further along that yellow brick road:
I had very intense 9-11 dreams before 9-11. Before 9-11, I originally took it to just be Jungian quaternity symbolism (three similar events then a 4th with a fighting back difference). The first and second were even twin-like and the third was even a closed shape completion (pentagon though in my dream it was a circle). Dreams/myths/history/sacred geometry can all have a Jungian math to them. Pauli and Jung related quaternities to math quaternions.
Getting the general public to take the dreamtime landscape seriously is not an easy thing to do even if you try to normalize it with different vocabulary.[/QUOTE]
I rather think you may be missing telepathy. It certainly can be taken into account into both my one predictive dream and even the warning given to me in my one experience in a Spiritual Church -- why else did I go there and then?
Dizzying sometimes how many theories there are about who Jesus might actually have been! And then there is the theory that he didn't exist at all...
There are several biblical verses which state to "call upon the name" or "believe in/on the name" of Jesus, so the "name" Jesus/Joshua/Yahoshua seems to be important. When translated, it means "YHWH/GOD is salvation." Regardless of his actual name, Yahoshua seems to be unanimously agreed to in the NT.
Doesn't surprise me at all that much of Christianity can be traced back to some of the more ancient mystical religions though, since that seems to be the entire point; going back to a more mystical/spiritual religion, and far away from a legalistic one.
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
The Dead Sea Scrolls show us there was yet another major breach in Judaism.
Still reckon the Qumran sect was a breakaway from the ruling Sadducee class. Paul most likely was one of their hit men, as Assyria would hardly be likely to permit any Jew to attack their citizens, even Jewish ones.
Has also been suggested that John the Baptist and Jesus were, for a time at least, members of Qumran.
Still am convinced the Bible will never be understood unless and until the politics of the time are taken fully into account. Excluding politics is fatal to understanding.
Think US Presidents since at least Reagan.
Think infidel Islam today.
Think Versailles immediately before the Revolution, when priests and princes shared the same life.
All humans are either Alphas or followers, regardless of the culture or the era.
Alphas will rules, and for most it matters not how they rule.
In fact, all the cultures Judaism borrowed from already were united in that the Alphas, religious or political, worked hand-in-glove.
How many Pharaohs, kings, emperors (including in meso- and South America), also were high priests?
Participants in the official rites were the emperor, his bureaucracy, and other degree-holders. There was no independent priesthood, for worship -- guided by bureaucrats according to government regulations -- was considered an official duty.
The State Cult gave powerful ritual emphasis to key elements of state ideology and to the basic political organization of the state.
The prayers and rituals that accompanied the many duties of the emperor were not designed by any one emperor. Rather, classic ritual texts were debated and revised under every dynasty. It was incumbent upon a sitting emperor to perform these rituals in order to demonstrate that he was the rightful emperor -- to validate his own position within the system, and at the same time, to validate the system itself. The emperor needed to express his commitment to the ideas that were behind these rituals, and so it was that every Chinese emperor worshipped Heaven and Earth at the Temple of Heaven and also at the sacred Mount Tai.
bluelamp, this was my intended follow-up to yesterday's post; I was going on about why we need to get back to basics when it comes to letter-sounds, in large part because connotations can change, completely altering what we read:
Eclectic Reading Rules OK
Gone are the days of the polymath:
In Western Europe, the first work to use polymathy in its title (De Polymathia tractatio: integri operis de studiis veterum) was published in 1603 by Johann von Wower, a Hamburg philosopher. Wower defined polymathy as "knowledge of various matters, drawn from all kinds of studies [...] ranging freely through all the fields of the disciplines, as far as the human mind, with unwearied industry, is able to pursue them". Wower lists erudition, literature, philology, philomathy and polyhistory as synonyms. The related term, polyhistor, is an ancient term with similar meaning.
Polymaths include the great thinkers of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment who excelled at several fields in science, technology, engineering, mathematics, and the arts. In the Italian Renaissance, the idea of the polymath was expressed by Leon Battista Alberti (1404–1472) in the statement that "a man can do all things if he will". Embodying a basic tenet of Renaissance humanism that humans are limitless in their capacity for development, the concept led to the notion that people should embrace all knowledge and develop their capacities as fully as possible. This is expressed in the term "Renaissance man"—often applied to the gifted people of that age who sought to develop their abilities in all areas of accomplishment: intellectual, artistic, social and physical. The term entered the lexicon in the twentieth century and has now been applied to great thinkers living before and after the Renaissance.
Simple enough for this eclectic-reading Jack of all trades.
With the ever-expanding compilation of facts we now have access to, it is impossible for specialists to keep track of even their own fields. That must include religion.
What happens, then, when a totally unrelated field contains information which specialists in different fields would find useful yet they will never see?
This might sound trite; however, as with all mythological stories, it contains a key message:
Hopped in the car, with the radio on; a religion/ethics discussion broadcast by our ABC. The moderator had a panel of two, a Muslim and an Indian. Both are world-ranking, one a Nobel Prize winner, so you can imagine the standard of discussion.
One raised the topic of robotics and, like Stephen Hawking, he is extremely pessimistic about the future of the **** sapiens Great Ape -- redundancy is inevitable. As he saw it, computers will develop a mind of their own and, sooner or later, will decide, using scientific logic and reason, that we have outlived our usefulness.
What then? Do they delete us?
I'll bet my cellar (with the approval of my CB) that neither that speaker not Hawking has read Isaac Asimov or Frank Herbert.
Well, Herbert (or his son) has a book in the Dune series where that does happen. The computers lose that battle, however are still there many books later. IIRC the series closes with the impending merger of human and robotic minds.
Asimov is the world expert on sci-fi robots, and one of his stories ends with the same merger.
Those who know Asimov know he wrote two major series, The Caves of Steel and Foundation. He then merged the two. R. Daneel Olivaw was there from start to finish.
Asimov explored that human-computer mind in a way neither Hawking nor that program speaker could imagine.
As you know, the Brahman concept appeals to ICB. You can have no idea how often this Skinnerian watches interactions between people, daily news or fiction dramas, and gets a tiny glimpse of the different meanings the identical scripted words could have for different people.
Had an image of me offering a glass of wine to a stranger, and he drops it on the floor.
Imagine what is going on through his mind; total embarrassment, apologies, a need to clean up his mess, concern how this impacts on my opinion of him.
Empathise with him for a moment.
Then look at what is going through my mind.
That one glass was a $130 Riedel, the wine was a $15,000-a-bottle Grange Hermitage, and the bloke is standing with one hand right beside my $1000 Reidel Horn Decanter.
Try empathising with that.
Imagine, then, that Brahman concept I envy. A Gaia multiverse and a creating entity capable of experiencing that exists , in every reality.
Reading anything in isolation, especially politics and religion, means we are in the control of the Alphas, and they have had aeons of experience in creating effective mind-controlling propaganda.
Way back in the 1880s, an upper-class Brit said the advertising industry had to pull in psychologists, and boy, have they made a meal of that. It is one thing to rcognise psychology in advertising, whether it is selling sugar drinks, fatty food, politics, or religion.
Quite another thing to actually know how it is being used.
Don't know if you can access any of the Aussie ABC Gruen programs?
Four advertising executives, under a comedian moderator, tear the industry apart, proving just how ruthlessly cold-blooded it is. One, Todd Sampson, has a mind which works much like mine in this context (love to know if he is into NLP). https://www.brainhq.com/welcom.../redesign_my_brain_2
Before one begins to study anything, one must first get deep inside all the authors to determine who is decent and who is not.
The rules applying to evangelical ministers apply to all religious writers, no matter what our first impression may be.
|Here to stay...|
Yeah he actually didn't like haoma rituals. I think he liked his own visions better:
Dreams like my 9-11 one would be a time traveling version of telepathy but rather distorted by being in dream form. Channeling can be a telepathic connection to the recently dead or other spirits hanging around earth or to yourself in a possible future evolved state.
|Here to stay...|
I think Joshua (via Moses' right hand man) may have been a generic name used for martyred leaders who could help from their higher heaven position. There was some Abel shedding blood in the ground symbolism too related to martyrs getting to a higher heaven.
|Here to stay...|
Paul was a Herodian so he had some backing via Rome in his initial persecution of revolutionaries like the James gang (James, Cephas, John).
|Here to stay...|
Humanity's technological empire could though crumble catastrophically before we ever get there.
and we are it on the way back to being it
Yeah alternative internet news sources are not loved by the mainstream press which kind of hints that there are things out there that the alphas don't want you to see.
|Never goes away...|
I had moved legalism into public law which is supposed to be separate per our founding fathers. But, yes, I see your point.
Speaking of alphas I had one right-winger claim that the U.S. military would never follow an illegal order because they are all Alpha males.
I pointed out the last thing the military wants is Alpha males since they need troops that can be indoctrinated and follow orders.
bryan j borich
Speaking of which, Mrs Exp?
bryan j borich
Been there/done that enough with Vicki pointing out she claims to be Christ. Among the other usual problems like following Jesus command to be Perfect.
bryan j borich
I hope he's still doing ok...
bryan j borich
bryan j borich
bluelamp: do you see IRMs in this?
Was going to answer those separately, then realised they have the same core.
We’re way past what you are preaching and thing you are just at the beginning.
Actually, no. We stick with the conventional, the orthodox, no matter what the cost.
I have said repeatedly that virtually all posters do not go back to the beginning.
Have yet to see any religious poster go back more than 4000 years, and by that time we all had well and truly lost our way.
The key is individual perception, and neuropsychology had just left the starting line on that.
I have yet to see anyone, in everything I have read, seen, or listen to, ask why we find it necessary to believe in deities at all.
As for education:
I do not know enough about Steiner or other systems, but I do know the Montessori system, as a base at least, is so far ahead of orthodox education systems they are a sick joke. Remember, I have spent some 17 years as a volunteer tutor in three high schools and a college, working with all types from mentally handicapped to some top students..
Bloody hell, we didn't even have sense enough to drop the QWERTY keyboard.
We have all the information we need to get back in the path we lost some 12,000 years ago.
Whether anyone likes it or not, understanding entheogens is an essential place to start.
As I said to bluelamp, it has now become essential to look deeply at words, how and why we create them, what connotations they have which control the way the listener/reader interprets them.
We have more than enough established evidence to make it impossible to understand any religion without a full understanding of what we experience in those altered states of consciousness.
Huxley's Doors of Perception is as good a place to start for anyone determined to find what, if any, truth there is in what I am saying.
|Here to stay...|
Alternative news sites on the internet are certainly not considered conventional by the mainstream media and modern religions that channel with a ouija board certainly aren't considered conventional by mainstream religions. The unconventional is out there.
Brahman and Ein Sof aren't wrong just because you can find them today and the Ein Sof/Brahman-like Zurvan going back 40,000 years isn't overly useful because the only thing left of it from 40,000 years ago is a single figurine.
The problem with going back too far is that the data gets too sparse. But you can go back to Noah/Atlantis via the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis 12,000 years ago. Via ouija board religion, you can go back 309,000 years to Golden Age/Edenic times after which we lost most of our psychic abilities. About the only thing that correlates with this is the known spread of advanced tools 300,000 years ago all over Africa. Apparently you need more tools if you aren't psychic in the Golden age/Edenic sense.
It's not necessary to believe in string theory either but researching things and having favorite models is fun. Deities are just consciousness in different situations physics model-wise. You would have Ein Sof, Brahman, Zurvan, 7th heaven/loka/density at the fundamental Planck scale superpositions. You have us humans and other physical aliens at the 3rd heaven/loka/density with massive particle superpositions, and you would have hyperdimensional and variably physical aliens, angels, demons at densities/heavens/lokas in between with massless particle superpositions and conformal transformations. It's just a modeling thing matching physics/consciousness models with ancient and modern channeling data.
You have to be a little careful with Montessori branded schools; they aren't all created equal since it's kind of an informal label. It's like having a classical school into the Socratic method and actually expecting it to be like Socrates was actually the teacher.
Entheogens kind of reboot the brain's autonomic nervous system to keep it from dominating your conscious thoughts too much (like with PTSD). You don't really need to continuously do it since the changes stay with you and too much could be bad.
When words become a problem, I usually just say "it's just semantics" to reboot the conversation (without entheogens).
One nice thing about ouija boards is that there's no altered state. Hancock's altered state drawings/paintings from his "Supernatural" book include the earthbound "sea of faces" known to mediums plus some beyond earth hyperdimensional things known to hypnotherapists working with "abductees". Not for me; I don't even do ouija boards.
I know you've mentioned Hancock too. Ibn al-'Arabi was quite good at describing the shamanic experience.
bluelamp, I'm tied up right now (sauv blanc with flathead).
Did you see my edit on the top of the previous post?