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Devoted...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
You know full well that the concept of the Trinity does allow the parts to be separate, except perhaps by nature. That’s how the posse got to Jesus IS God etc. personally I find this manmade help, a huge hinderance to the concept of God.


Still do not understand why God would send himself to be tested by his enemy.

Unless, of course, this actually came from Judaism.

Be perfectly in order for the Jewish God to send his Mashiach, a human descendant (or reincarnation) of David to be tested by God's very own Adversary to make sure this human is not getting ideas above his station.


Pretty much, but then I’m good with Judaism being the origin of a lot of the NT. I’m not sure it’s necessaru to test one to make sure they don’t get above their station. I’d think that testing created knowledge and experiences and would raise ones station! But that’s off the cuff logic so to speak.
 
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Pretty much, but then I’m good with Judaism being the origin of a lot of the NT. I’m not sure it’s necessaru to test one to make sure they don’t get above their station. I’d think that testing created knowledge and experiences and would raise ones station! But that’s off the cuff logic so to speak.


You timed that nicely; the birds have arrived. See ya later.

IIRC, those "temptations" are identical to challenges Jesus faced in his real life.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1616 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Pretty much, but then I’m good with Judaism being the origin of a lot of the NT. I’m not sure it’s necessaru to test one to make sure they don’t get above their station. I’d think that testing created knowledge and experiences and would raise ones station! But that’s off the cuff logic so to speak.


You timed that nicely; the birds have arrived. See ya later.

IIRC, those "temptations" are identical to challenges Jesus faced in his real life.


I would assume so. I can’t believe the temptations didn’t come out of Jewish tradition either.
 
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I would assume so. I can’t believe the temptations didn’t come out of Jewish tradition either.


That's one of the queries I have yet to answer.

Who were the Ebionites, Nazarenes, Symmachians, and the Elkasites?

Could it be that, as with Bar Kokhba, Joshua/Jesus also was seen by Jews as the promised Mashiach?

Makes sense if he actually were a member of the Qumran sect, who were confident that, once the rebellion began, God would send down his heavenly hosts to defeat the Romans and all other enemies of his Chosen People.

For Jesus, as he told his disciples, two swords were enough, so he sent Judas to tell the Romans the rebellion had begun, thus fulfilling God's promise.

Those two swords were not enough so, as with one of the lestai/rebels crucified along with Jesus, some of his Jewish followers remained faithful to him, just waiting for the next maschiach.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
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Constant...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Those in power probably have too much power for the masses to handle at the moment anyways.


Can't think off-hand of any major revolution where that has not been the case.


Well it used to be easier to form your own army that could rival existing armies at least somewhat (that's what Caesar did and more or less what George Washington did with local militias). There just aren't local militias around like there used to be. You also can't get the official army to change sides as easy as you could in the past or in less developed countries. As bad as things got when communism fell in Russia; it's not like the Russian mafias took over control of the nukes.


quote:
Think you'll find Julius used the French Druids as part of his reason for his Gallic Wars.

According to him, the Druids were an intelligent bunch who needed only Roman civilisation to make them worth while.


Julius Caesar didn't say they needed civilizing. He did say they did human sacrifices but didn't say anything about changing their religious practices. He said they respected the stars and the gods and nature. He kind of just mentioned the Druids at the same time as mentioning the Knights. He didn't use the Druids or Knights as a reason for war. During the war, he never mentions the Druids which is kind of odd since the Druids tended to do unusual things when attacked.
 
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Picture of Allan
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Reed, can you imagine the effect of Korea defeating Germany, the hot pick, in the World Cup?

What an enormous boost that must be.

Has to be reflected in South Korea's confidence in world politics even though they do not go through to the next round.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1616 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Well it used to be easier to form your own army that could rival existing armies at least somewhat (that's what Caesar did and more or less what George Washington did with local militias). There just aren't local militias around like there used to be. You also can't get the official army to change sides as easy as you could in the past or in less developed countries. As bad as things got when communism fell in Russia; it's not like the Russian mafias took over control of the nukes.


Just look at the countries now where people are challenging their governments.

quote:


Julius Caesar didn't say they needed civilizing. He did say they did human sacrifices but didn't say anything about changing their religious practices. He said they respected the stars and the gods and nature. He kind of just mentioned the Druids at the same time as mentioning the Knights. He didn't use the Druids or Knights as a reason for war. During the war, he never mentions the Druids which is kind of odd since the Druids tended to do unusual things when attacked.


News time, so I will have to come back later to find the source I took Julius' views on the Druids.

That source said he did indeed use the Druid's intelligence as one reason Rome needed to win in Gaul.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1616 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Constant...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Just look at the countries now where people are challenging their governments.


The best thing to happen recently has been Putin without even needing a revolt. They actually let their leader lead there. It's kind of Putin vs the intelligence/industrial leaders behind the scenes that more or less own the Western leaders. Not sure how you actually get at the intelligence-industrial leaders however in a grass roots kind of way. The militias and economic leaders aren't as local as they used to be.

quote:
That source said he did indeed use the Druid's intelligence as one reason Rome needed to win in Gaul.


Wikipedia mentions researchers who think Caesar made up stuff about the Druids in order to justify his war but obviously Caesar isn't going to say he made stuff up. Wikipedia also mentions researchers who think Caesar stuck close to the truth. I personally think Caesar left out some reasons why he went after the Druids aka he didn't want their "powers" in a powerful position (he did mention that they had a powerful position). No way to really know just from Caesar's words. The reason actually mentioned by Caesar is a defensive one against a Gallic tribe:

http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.1.1.html

quote:
It is again told Caesar, that the Helvetii intended to march through the country of the Sequani and the Aedui into the territories of the Santones, which are not far distant from those boundaries of the Tolosates, which [viz. Tolosa, Toulouse] is a state in the Province. If this took place, he saw that it would be attended with great danger to the Province to have warlike men, enemies of the Roman people, bordering upon an open and very fertile tract of country.
 
Posts: 908 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
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Synchronicity Rules OK

Love to be able to remember if I came up myself with the idea that the Book of Job was rewritten after the Exile as the priests' excuse for Marduk defeating Adonai, but I never expected to find a Jewish source, the Talmud itself, which has some rabbis, at least, confirming the date of writing, if nothing else:

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish...ook-of-job-1.5434183
The Talmud (redacted at about 500 CE) has several versions. The Talmud (Bava Barta 14b) says it was written by Moses, but then on the next page (15a), rabbis Jonathan and Eliezer say Job was among those who returned from the Babylonian Exile in 538 BCE, which was about seven centuries after Moses’ supposed death.

Odd, though, that Haaratz does not mention The Ludlul-Bel-Nimeqi or the earlier Sumerian work, Man and His God (composed c. 2000 BCE) , said by many to have been the original source adopted and adapted by post-exile Jews.
https://www.ancient.eu/article...ely-a-babylonian-jo/

Surprised, too, to find the Book of Chronicles also is said to be post-exile.
https://thebibleproject.com/bl...les-not-just-repeat/
The books of Chronicles, composed as one unified literary work, was produced by an anonymous author living in Jerusalem more than 200 years after the return from exile. Look at the genealogy in 1 Chronicles 3:1-24; this takes you six generations after the return from the exile that took place in the 530s B.C. Bible scholars refer to this author as “the Chronicler,” which is a pretty awesome title!

Makes one wonder, in line with Margaret Barker, just how much of the Tanakh is indeed post-exile, rewritten from much earlier versions.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1616 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Found something interesting yesterday, there are 2 versions of the booklet on Amazon, the regular .99cent version, and a slighly expanded version at $6.99 version.

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.” ― General Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier, Commandant - US Marine Corps.


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bryan j borich
 
Posts: 465 | Location: CA | Mbr Since: 05-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Found something interesting yesterday, there are 2 versions of the booklet on Amazon, the regular .99cent version, and a slighly expanded version at $6.99 version.

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.” ― General Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier, Commandant - US Marine Corps.


Found this in the comments

“This edition of War is a Racket is a fraudulent use of copyright and Amazon must pull all copies of this edition, ISBN 978-1503081574, claimed by someone named Dragan Nikolic. Buyers should know the original, 1935 work by Major General Smedley Butler is public domain and archived by the US Copyright office. Related historical records pertaining to General Butler's advocacy on the same topic are all available for free download here: [...]
There is no such copyright under the name, Dragan Nikolic, for the publication, War is a Racket, according to US Copyright Office records. The fraudulent activity of Dragan Nikolic dba Aristeus Books is apparently well known to Amazon, as their subsidiary, Create Space, has archived discussions of illegal exploitation of copyright by Nikolic. Here's the link to the Create Space page detailing other infractions by the same publisher: [...]
War is a Racket published as ISBN 978-0922915866 contains an introductory essay by Adam Parfrey, copyrighted in 2003; according to Amazon's "Look Inside," the Butler family also owns the 2003 copyright of the publication with Parfrey's essay. The essay provides historical context to Butler's work and is worth purchasing under the latter ISBN identification. The publisher for the Butler family/Parfrey work is Feral House in Los Angeles, Calif.”
 
Posts: 5313 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
You know full well that the concept of the Trinity does allow the parts to be separate, except perhaps by nature. That’s how the posse got to Jesus IS God etc. personally I find this manmade help, a huge hinderance to the concept of God.


Still do not understand why God would send himself to be tested by his enemy.

Unless, of course, this actually came from Judaism.

Be perfectly in order for the Jewish God to send his Mashiach, a human descendant (or reincarnation) of David to be tested by God's very own Adversary to make sure this human is not getting ideas above his station.


Pretty much, but then I’m good with Judaism being the origin of a lot of the NT. I’m not sure it’s necessaru to test one to make sure they don’t get above their station. I’d think that testing created knowledge and experiences and would raise ones station! But that’s off the cuff logic so to speak.


There are 2 equally valid ways to view that test. One as the Ego testing the 'Spirit', the other as the Spirit testing Jesus to see how he'd react to the powers he'd be given.

I've personally had the experience of both.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bryan j borich
 
Posts: 465 | Location: CA | Mbr Since: 05-02-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Found something interesting yesterday, there are 2 versions of the booklet on Amazon, the regular .99cent version, and a slighly expanded version at $6.99 version.

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.” ― General Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier, Commandant - US Marine Corps.


Found this in the comments

“This edition of War is a Racket is a fraudulent use of copyright and Amazon must pull all copies of this edition, ISBN 978-1503081574, claimed by someone named Dragan Nikolic. Buyers should know the original, 1935 work by Major General Smedley Butler is public domain and archived by the US Copyright office. Related historical records pertaining to General Butler's advocacy on the same topic are all available for free download here: [...]
There is no such copyright under the name, Dragan Nikolic, for the publication, War is a Racket, according to US Copyright Office records. The fraudulent activity of Dragan Nikolic dba Aristeus Books is apparently well known to Amazon, as their subsidiary, Create Space, has archived discussions of illegal exploitation of copyright by Nikolic. Here's the link to the Create Space page detailing other infractions by the same publisher: [...]
War is a Racket published as ISBN 978-0922915866 contains an introductory essay by Adam Parfrey, copyrighted in 2003; according to Amazon's "Look Inside," the Butler family also owns the 2003 copyright of the publication with Parfrey's essay. The essay provides historical context to Butler's work and is worth purchasing under the latter ISBN identification. The publisher for the Butler family/Parfrey work is Feral House in Los Angeles, Calif.”



It might be in the Guttenburg archives too, coming to think of it.

Or here,

https://archive.org/stream/War...arIsARacket_djvu.txt'


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bryan j borich
 
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So, whether or not war is a racket, it's not the only racket out there, huh?
 
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Constant...
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quote:
Originally posted by Henry J:
So, whether or not war is a racket, it's not the only racket out there, huh?

To really make a racket, it would have to be an audio book.
 
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Hope y'all are staying cool. It's hot and humid here and I've slipped into a funk. Just don't feel much like yapping. That's why I've been absent for a few days.

But I did want to tell ya that I heard from Steve today and he sounded great. He spoke with Mary Jean a few days ago and said she sounded at the top of her game.

Probably won't be posting much until this funk lifts, but I usually read through the posts almost daily, so keep 'em coming.


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Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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Devoted...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Hope y'all are staying cool. It's hot and humid here and I've slipped into a funk. Just don't feel much like yapping. That's why I've been absent for a few days.

But I did want to tell ya that I heard from Steve today and he sounded great. He spoke with Mary Jean a few days ago and said she sounded at the top of her game.

Probably won't be posting much until this funk lifts, but I usually read through the posts almost daily, so keep 'em coming.


Tomorrow we are high 90s, and I barely made it through today in the low 90s. Just in a funk too I guess. I haven’t been outside, but my get up and go got up and went.

Stay safe.
 
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"in times of such commotion as the present, while the passions of men are worked up to an uncommon pitch, there is great danger of fatal extremes. The same state of the passions which fits the multitude, who have not a sufficient stock of reason and knowledge to guide them, for opposition to tyranny and oppression, very naturally leads them to a contempt and disregard of all authority. The due medium is hardly to be found among the more intelligent. it is almost impossible among the unthinking populace. When the minds of these are loosened from their attachment to ancient establishment and courses, they seem to grow giddy and are apt more or less to run into anarchy."

-- Alexander Hamilton; letter to John Jay (Nov. 26, 1775)


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bryan j borich
 
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
There are 2 equally valid ways to view that test. One as the Ego testing the 'Spirit', the other as the Spirit testing Jesus to see how he'd react to the powers he'd be given.
I've personally had the experience of both.


So, you are saying Jesus is not an aspect of God.

I agree.

However, why on earth would any Ego take the risk of testing the Spirit, a challenge even the most egotistical Ego would not dare to risk. What if it wakened the Spirit to its full capacity?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1616 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
"in times of such commotion as the present, while the passions of men are worked up to an uncommon pitch, there is great danger of fatal extremes. The same state of the passions which fits the multitude, who have not a sufficient stock of reason and knowledge to guide them, for opposition to tyranny and oppression, very naturally leads them to a contempt and disregard of all authority. The due medium is hardly to be found among the more intelligent. it is almost impossible among the unthinking populace. When the minds of these are loosened from their attachment to ancient establishment and courses, they seem to grow giddy and are apt more or less to run into anarchy."
-- Alexander Hamilton; letter to John Jay (Nov. 26, 1775)


Ever thought of reading Peter Ackroyd's Blake?

An interesting insight into a culture which had no doubts about the existence of God nor the accuracy of the Bible.

Blake was in his late teens when your quote was written.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1616 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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