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Amazon Mob's Pub & Coffee Shop Part II
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Enthusiast...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Me less so, especially in person! Niece can’t seem to make a decision based on facts or the future, rather than emotions. She’s trying hard to catch up, but then sabatoges anything she gains.

Yep, don't it make you crazy when people "think" with their emotions? IOW, they cannot understand the difference between thinking and emotions, because to them, it is the same thing.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4939 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Feelings... Nothing more than feelings...
 
Posts: 9110 | Location: Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-17-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Henry J:
Feelings... Nothing more than feelings...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBcHUe4WeQ


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4939 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
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One for bluelamp:

https://www.sott.net/article/3...uck-Earth-in-10950BC


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
One for bluelamp:

https://www.sott.net/article/3...uck-Earth-in-10950BC

Haven't seen bluelamp since we came back up... Hope he finds his way back.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4939 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Haven't seen bluelamp since we came back up... Hope he finds his way back.


Pretty sure I saw him on a revived thread.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It would save me an awful lot of bother, make my life much easier, if you all studied this:

http://www.bbc.com/culture/sto...greenies-and-ratbags

FYI, when Barry Humphries helped to popularise a number of phrases including some of his own inventions: ‘as dry as a kookaburra’s khyber’ (very dry), he was borrowing from Cockney rhyming slang.

Think Khyber Pass, which you all should have read about in your history lessons.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Constant...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
It would save me an awful lot of bother, make my life much easier, if you all studied this...

FYI, when Barry Humphries helped to popularise a number of phrases including some of his own inventions: ‘as dry as a kookaburra’s khyber’ (very dry), he was borrowing from Cockney rhyming slang.

Think Khyber Pass, which you all should have read about in your history lessons.


English certainly gets treated differently in different areas. I was born in and went to college here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Pennsylvania_English
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Constant...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
One for bluelamp:

https://www.sott.net/article/3...uck-Earth-in-10950BC


SOTT is very biased towards comets! (and I had mostly been checking Aantares daily waiting for it to come back).
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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Have you heard what it took to get it back? I know our college had a renewal problem with a certificate, seemingly every year!
 
Posts: 5980 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
English certainly gets treated differently in different areas. I was born in and went to college here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Pennsylvania_English


Australia missed out on all those varied languages, which is perhaps why Aussies are so good at creating their own new words. Was interested to note -- something I should have seen without being told -- that the world-wide use of "selfie" originated here. The average Aussie will sit down at the brekkie table in the morning wondering what Chrissie prezzies they will buy for their rellies.

Maybe it is why I use the Aussie "youse" when I refer to the Pennsylvanian Scots-Irish yinz. Youse yinz over there...

Been playing with words all my life, and "play" here is a good example. What normally comes to mind is girls playing with their dolls, boys playing with their cars.

But that is entirely different from "play"ing sport. Even here, there's a world of difference between someone kicking a ball around with their mates as a prelude to joining them in a beer or three after, and the top 20 footballers who took home a combined $575 million in salary, bonus and endorsements in the last 12 months. Then there's Cristiano Ronaldo, net worth £250 million ($321.5 million), and Lionel Messi, net worth £230 million ($295 million)

The first recorded record transfer (fee) was of Willie Groves from West Bromwich Albion to Aston Villa for £100 in 1893. This occurred just eight years after the introduction of professionalism by The Football Association in 1885.[1] The current transfer record was set by the transfer of Neymar from Barcelona to Paris Saint-Germain for €222 million (£198 million) on 3 August 2017.[2][3][4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...n_football_transfers

Not that I am comparing myself with Neymar da Silva Santos Júnior (truly I'm not), however my idea of playing with words can be totally different from the way others play with these letter groupings.

Still insist we need to go back to the origin of the letter-groups originally introduced to permit us to discuss spiritual matters. The groupings we use in the 21st century seem to have changed very little since they were created some 6000 years ago. Surely we need to update these concepts?

Intelligent as they undoubtedly were, those creators knew absolutely nothing about how our brains work, cared little about how different cultures dictated how people perceived life as they lived it.

Could it be that what they named their soul actually was nothing more than the action of neuron groupings of our brains?
https://theconversation.com/wh...-big-questions-86442

Could be a whole new world out there.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
English certainly gets treated differently in different areas. I was born in and went to college here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Pennsylvania_English


Australia missed out on all those varied languages, which is perhaps why Aussies are so good at creating their own new words. Was interested to note -- something I should have seen without being told -- that the world-wide use of "selfie" originated here. The average Aussie will sit down at the brekkie table in the morning wondering what Chrissie prezzies they will buy for their rellies.

Maybe it is why I use the Aussie "youse" when I refer to the Pennsylvanian Scots-Irish yinz. Youse yinz over there...

Been playing with words all my life, and "play" here is a good example. What normally comes to mind is girls playing with their dolls, boys playing with their cars.

But that is entirely different from "play"ing sport. Even here, there's a world of difference between someone kicking a ball around with their mates as a prelude to joining them in a beer or three after, and the top 20 footballers who took home a combined $575 million in salary, bonus and endorsements in the last 12 months. Then there's Cristiano Ronaldo, net worth £250 million ($321.5 million), and Lionel Messi, net worth £230 million ($295 million)

The first recorded record transfer (fee) was of Willie Groves from West Bromwich Albion to Aston Villa for £100 in 1893. This occurred just eight years after the introduction of professionalism by The Football Association in 1885.[1] The current transfer record was set by the transfer of Neymar from Barcelona to Paris Saint-Germain for €222 million (£198 million) on 3 August 2017.[2][3][4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...n_football_transfers

Not that I am comparing myself with Neymar da Silva Santos Júnior (truly I'm not), however my idea of playing with words can be totally different from the way others play with these letter groupings.

Still insist we need to go back to the origin of the letter-groups originally introduced to permit us to discuss spiritual matters. The groupings we use in the 21st century seem to have changed very little since they were created some 6000 years ago. Surely we need to update these concepts?

Intelligent as they undoubtedly were, those creators knew absolutely nothing about how our brains work, cared little about how different cultures dictated how people perceived life as they lived it.

Could it be that what they named their soul actually was nothing more than the action of neuron groupings of our brains?
https://theconversation.com/wh...-big-questions-86442

Could be a whole new world out there.


I’m not sure that there is a way to define, or redefine abstract words, or abstract concepts of even feelings. The Greeks had at least three words for love, and even when we use those we still can’t convey the feeling. Many a theologian has defined what God points to while not being able to touch the infinite of the term. And even those definitions have taken more than a few paragraphs or books to definite thus putting another wedge between people trying to understand each other.

I remember the first time I saw 2001, a space odyssey, I came away with a feeling of connection, simplicity and some predestination. All of it had me nearly screaming no that can’t be all there is; a term that hadn’t been used much back then.
 
Posts: 5980 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Constant...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Could it be that what they named their soul actually was nothing more than the action of neuron groupings of our brains?
https://theconversation.com/wh...-big-questions-86442

Could be a whole new world out there.


https://www.sott.net/article/2...er-universe-at-death

quote:
According to Dr. Stuart Hameroff, a near-death experience happens when the quantum information that inhabits the nervous system leaves the body and dissipates into the universe. Contrary to materialistic accounts of consciousness, Dr. Hameroff offers an alternative explanation of consciousness that can perhaps appeal to both the rational scientific mind and personal intuitions.

Consciousness resides, according to Stuart and British physicist Sir Roger Penrose, in the microtubules of the brain cells, which are the primary sites of quantum processing. Upon death, this information is released from your body, meaning that your consciousness goes with it. They have argued that our experience of consciousness is the result of quantum gravity effects in these microtubules, a theory which they dubbed orchestrated objective reduction (Orch-OR)...

Dr Hameroff told the Science Channel's Through the Wormhole documentary: "Let's say the heart stops beating, the blood stops flowing, the microtubules lose their quantum state. The quantum information within the microtubules is not destroyed, it can't be destroyed, it just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large"...

If the patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says "I had a near death experience"'

He adds: "If they're not revived, and the patient dies, it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body, perhaps indefinitely, as a soul."

This account of quantum consciousness explains things like near-death experiences, astral projection, out of body experiences, and even reincarnation without needing to appeal to religious ideology. The energy of your consciousness potentially gets recycled back into a different body at some point, and in the mean time it exists outside of the physical body...
 
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I’m not sure that there is a way to define, or redefine abstract words, or abstract concepts of even feelings. The Greeks had at least three words for love, and even when we use those we still can’t convey the feeling. Many a theologian has defined what God points to while not being able to touch the infinite of the term. And even those definitions have taken more than a few paragraphs or books to definite thus putting another wedge between people trying to understand each other.


That sums it up neatly.

The key comes down to effective communication, which is what I am struggling with.

Even people brought up in the same community, educated in the same schools, can struggle to communicate. You will remember my telling about a student who wrote a review on Hacksaw Ridge and completely missed the point of the movie as he did not know what a pacifist is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss

This is just an extract: As our troops gained the summit, a heavy concentration of artillery, mortar and machinegun fire crashed into them, inflicting approximately 75 casualties and driving the others back. Private First Class Doss refused to seek cover and remained in the fire-swept area with the many stricken, carrying them one by one to the edge of the escarpment and there lowering them on a rope-supported litter down the face of a cliff to friendly hands. On 2 May, he exposed himself to heavy rifle and mortar fire in rescuing a wounded man 200 yards forward of the lines on the same escarpment; and two days later he treated four men who had been cut down while assaulting a strongly defended cave, advancing through a shower of grenades to within eight yards of enemy forces in a cave's mouth, where he dressed his comrades' wounds before making four separate trips under fire to evacuate them to safety...

Not bad for a pacifist Seventh Day Adventist.

That lad was just one of the worst examples I experienced across three high schools and a TAFE (Technical and Further Advanced Education college).

Finally had to buy a flak jacket to protect my ribs from CB's elbow night after night as she reacts to what she hears from the world's leading politicians and academics.

It's like my football metaphor.

At one level, I have no need whatsoever to get into the intricacies of understanding American Football, Gaelic Football, Australian Football, rugby union, or rugby league. I can recognise many of the skills used there, but they are irrelevant when it comes to my real passion, the World Game, the Beautiful Game, the round-ball game, poetry in motion.

But this changes dramatically, radically, when it comes to playing the human-behaviour, spiritual, game.

How can I, a born and bred Socialist and life-long committed, dedicated trade unionist, born and brought up in two Socialist Democrat countries, communicate with all those USA posters whose minds decree that today's real-life Socialism is an evil on par with Communism as practised by Stalin?

How can we communicate if, for some, our soul is a spark of the Supreme Creator, or the result of quantum gravity effects in brain microtubules, or the effects of my neuron modules, or...?

Before we even think of starting, we must agree on the definitions of all key words.

We also have to park our emotions well out of the way.

Our mob took an unseemly delight in rushing to tell me I was kidding myself when I said I was an atheist.

Why?

Because, while I do see things in a practical, pragmatic way, I acknowledge that neither science, reason, nor logic has been able to eliminate the possibility of a Supreme Deity.

Being able to put my emotions aside, I can relate to both the committed deity believer and the committed atheist.

Whether they can relate to me is another matter altogether.

quote:
I remember the first time I saw 2001, a space odyssey, I came away with a feeling of connection, simplicity and some predestination. All of it had me nearly screaming no that can’t be all there is; a term that hadn’t been used much back then.


Communication breakdown.

I've seen 2001 a couple of times,and have no idea of what you are nearly screaming about.

It reminded me of Isaac Asimov's sci-fi story The Last Question of a computer saying "let there be light".

After seeing a planetarium adaptation of his work, Asimov "privately" concluded that this story was his best science fiction yet written; he placed it just higher than "The Ugly Little Boy" (September 1958) and "The Bicentennial Man" (1976).[3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question
"The Last Question" ranks with "Nightfall" (1941) as one of Asimov's best-known and most acclaimed short stories. He wrote in 1973:[5]
...Why is it my favorite? For one thing I got the idea all at once and didn't have to fiddle with it; and I wrote it in white-heat and scarcely had to change a word. This sort of thing endears any story to any writer.
Then, too, it has had the strangest effect on my readers. Frequently someone writes to ask me if I can give them the name of a story, which they think I may have written, and tell them where to find it. They don't remember the title but when they describe the story it is invariably 'The Last Question'. This has reached the point where I recently received a long-distance phone call from a desperate man who began, "Dr. Asimov, there's a story I think you wrote, whose title I can't remember—" at which point I interrupted to tell him it was 'The Last Question' and when I described the plot it proved to be indeed the story he was after. I left him convinced I could read minds at a distance of a thousand miles.

That brings up a related issue. How often have you seen an author say their characters took over, changed the way they used them in their story?

How can that be?

Who or what is in control?

Maybe that is the question we each, individually, in our own community-directed personal way, are all asking?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Constant...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
I've seen 2001 a couple of times,and have no idea of what you are nearly screaming about.

It reminded me of Isaac Asimov's sci-fi story The Last Question of a computer saying "let there be light".

...

That brings up a related issue. How often have you seen an author say their characters took over, changed the way they used them in their story?

How can that be?

Who or what is in control?

Maybe that is the question we each, individually, in our own community-directed personal way, are all asking?


From channeling:

quote:

Q: (L) Once again, are there any beings on 7th level?

A: Big bang.

Q: (L) Big bang is at 7th level?

A: Close enough.

Q: (L) So, when we all reach 7th level we will all blow up? We will all become one and it will all start all over again?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Well, that's not a pleasant thought!

A: Why? There is no time, you dwell there eternally. 7th is the light you see at death of the body.

Q: (L) So, when you die and leave the body, do you go to seventh level?

A: See it.
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
From channeling:


Please explain.

I'm talking about the core question, one we really do need to itemise, explain in fine detail.

Channelling may be one source of the answer, however I have yet to see any indication of this.

quote:

Q: (L) Once again, are there any beings on 7th level?

A: Big bang.

Q: (L) Big bang is at 7th level?

A: Close enough.

Q: (L) So, when we all reach 7th level we will all blow up? We will all become one and it will all start all over again?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Well, that's not a pleasant thought!

A: Why? There is no time, you dwell there eternally. 7th is the light you see at death of the body.

Q: (L) So, when you die and leave the body, do you go to seventh level?

A: See it.


So, what is the full meaning of this 7th level? What does it tell us, how does it answer the question?

I looked up Penrose and Hameroff on https://www.elsevier.com/conne...ry-of-consciousness, and all I've got so far is a rewording of what I said some time back -- we need to know the human brain.

For me, Penrose and Hameroff are doing nothing more than proposing a hypothetical solution for which they have yet to provide any supporting evidence. In other words, they are simply reframing the question and offering an alternative way of finding the bloody answer.

Hameroff: Quantum processes imply non-locality — conscious connections when physically separated. And Roger proposed that Platonic values embedded in the universe influence our conscious perceptions and choices. We are part of the universe. In my opinion, this has possible implications for spirituality.

All I can do is ask WTF, then go get another beer and suffer from my CB's elbow as we watch the news to see what is going on in our 21st century world.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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Allan, to the best of my recollection the 2001 film brought me to a feeling that was both too simple and too different from what I wanted to accept. I often wonder myself what exactly it was about and doubt that although I’d like to see the film again I will be able to isolate that original feeling which actually occurred during a discussion after the film!
 
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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Allan, to the best of my recollection the 2001 film brought me to a feeling that was both too simple and too different from what I wanted to accept. I often wonder myself what exactly it was about and doubt that although I’d like to see the film again I will be able to isolate that original feeling which actually occurred during a discussion after the film!
 
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Constant...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
So, what is the full meaning of this 7th level? What does it tell us, how does it answer the question?

I looked up Penrose and Hameroff on https://www.elsevier.com/conne...ry-of-consciousness, and all I've got so far is a rewording of what I said some time back -- we need to know the human brain.

For me, Penrose and Hameroff are doing nothing more than proposing a hypothetical solution for which they have yet to provide any supporting evidence. In other words, they are simply reframing the question and offering an alternative way of finding the bloody answer.

Hameroff: Quantum processes imply non-locality — conscious connections when physically separated. And Roger proposed that Platonic values embedded in the universe influence our conscious perceptions and choices. We are part of the universe. In my opinion, this has possible implications for spirituality.

All I can do is ask WTF, then go get another beer and suffer from my CB's elbow as we watch the news to see what is going on in our 21st century world.


The channeling is done by the wife of a physicist whose physics I liked for 8 years or so before I found out he had a wife he channels with. He's actually very mainstream, he was a Humboldt prize winner. I had no idea for those 8 years that he was into anything weird. I liked his physics because it fit with cellular automata based models and I worked with cellular automata at IBM. Most cellular automata related physics models I actually don't like but there's one I do like and his physics fits with it (he's a reference used by the model's creator).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humboldt_Prize

7th density is just the Planck scale and for me the Planck scale is a Clifford algebra tensor product superposition. Clifford algebra is the symmetry group for elementary cellular automata which is oddly enough a simplified version of what I used at IBM. What I used at IBM was too complicated to be modeled completely with math. We at IBM just used parts of it and checked it out with computer simulations aka we didn't need to completely model it with Clifford algebra.

Channeling definitely has to be checked out since for one thing the biases of the human end can certainly end up in the answers. A channeling source will occasionally say that wasn't us talking in reference to seeming contradictions in the answers at different times. Given that I like the physics direction for this channeling group via fitting with things I know via IBM, I tend to pay attention to the channeling about things I'm less able to check too.

The 7th density concept besides fitting with Planck scale cellular automata physics, seems to fit a bit with Asimov's "Last Question" too. We all end up as one outside of space and time (the Planck scale) which "I am the Alpha and Omega"-like is also the "Let there be light" big bang start too. Writers for books/movies certainly can channel without even knowing it. This channeling source claims to have inspired "The Wizard of Oz".

I like Penrose and Hameroff since they have the model that best handles the "binding problem" for how different parts of the brain combine to form a single thought (via superposition of information); it also has a decoherence equation that fits with brain wave frequencies; and fits with ideas for how anethesia works (Hameroff is an anesthesiologist). Anesthesia is known to bind to electron dipole structures and those electron dipole stuctures are theorized to have superpositions that decohere at brain wave frequency rates. Anesthesia binding in this area messes up the superposition via messing up the brain wave resonance holding the superposition together. It's my favorite model for consciousness and it can apply to the Planck scale too via Paola Zizzi's work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paola_Zizzi

quote:
Paola Zizzi is an Italian theoretical physicist who is most notable for her work in the field of loop quantum gravity, which regards the universe as a kind of super computer. She proposed that the universe has the computational complexity sufficient for the emergence of consciousness in the period known as the cosmic inflation in her paper titled Emergent Consciousness, which references Roger Penrose's theory of orchestrated objective reduction.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
The channeling is done by the wife of a physicist whose physics I liked for 8 years or so before I found out he had a wife he channels with. He's actually very mainstream, he was a Humboldt prize winner. I had no idea for those 8 years that he was into anything weird. I liked his physics because it fit with cellular automata based models and I worked with cellular automata at IBM. Most cellular automata related physics models I actually don't like but there's one I do like and his physics fits with it (he's a reference used by the model's creator).


As you will have anticipated, I perceive this as an alternative set of letter-groupings addressing the core issue.

We exist in some way, and we do not know why or how. That has been an issue for Alphas for tens of thousands of years.

X is the unknown, and we all describe it in letter-groupings determined by our genetic programming and cultural environment.

Problem is, no matter what letter-groupings our brains select, X remains the unknown.

X exists.

We have two options when it comes to determining what
X is.

We can start with the letter-grouping God always was, God always is, God always will be.

Or we can start with the letter-grouping Matter/Energy always was, Matter/Energy always is, Matter/Energy always will be.

Or we can explore both options.

Regardless, since we can describe X only with the letter-groupings our individual brain has selected, the issue remains the same.

What is it we are actually talking about?

The problem is compounded by another simple fact.

Whether we go for X is God or X Matter/Energy, those letter-groupings take on a life of their own, most of us deifying the letter-groupings which best fits our environmental heritage.

Or maybe God really is Matter/Energy, Matter/Energy is God?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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