|Here to stay...|
Yeah I tend to put that kind of stuff in the Polycarp and company totally messing up what Paul had in mind category.
I suppose the original people could have been non-channelers and channelers reused the stories. Channeling Zoroaster reused old comet stories. I actually think rainbow serpents/dragons were old comet stories too. I tend to think if in dreams, you can get 9-11 information from the future, you can get conscious thought information from the future via dreams/channeling too. Compared to the future, we are the ancestors.
bluelamp, you will have noticed this in that site you gave me (my italics):
"Aboriginal people learned from their stories that a society must not be human-centred but rather land centred, otherwise they forget their source and purpose ... humans are prone to exploitative behaviour if not constantly reminded they are interconnected with the rest of creation, that they as individuals are only temporal in time, and past and future generations must be included in their perception of their purpose in life."
"People come and go but the Land, and stories about the Land, stay. This is a wisdom that takes lifetimes of listening, observing and experiencing ... There is a deep understanding of human nature and the environment ... sites hold 'feelings' which cannot be described in physical terms... subtle feelings that resonate through the bodies of these people... It is only when talking and being with these people that these 'feelings' can truly be appreciated. This is... the intangible reality of these people..."
Even better: In particular, scholars suggest the Murrinh-Patha have a oneness of thought, belief, and expression unequalled within Christianity, as they see all aspects of their lives, thoughts and culture as under the continuing influence of their Dreaming. Within this Aboriginal religion, no distinction is drawn between things spiritual/ideal/mental and things material; nor is any distinction drawn between things sacred and things profane: rather all life is 'sacred', all conduct has 'moral' implication, and all life's meaning arises out of this eternal, everpresent Dreaming.
"In fact, the isomorphic fit between the natural and supernatural means that all nature is coded and charged by the sacred, while the sacred is everywhere within the physical landscape. Myths and mythic tracks cross over.. thousands of miles, and every particular form and feature of the terrain has a well-developed 'story' behind it."
Remembering that we are talking about the oldest living culture in the entire world(!Khoi and San excepted), it is easy to see where they were coming from, and then how we developed the subset religion so the Alphas could control instead of managing the members of the tribe.
Not only that, they cared for the land (in their own way) with an objectivity we are a bloody long way from emulating.
So you can see why I insist we must go as far back in pre-history if we are to even begin to understand "reality", deities or no deities.
"A woman, Mutjinga (the 'Old Woman'), was in charge of young children, but instead of watching out for them during their parents' absence, she swallowed them and tried to escape as a giant snake. The people followed her, spearing her and removing the undigested children from the body." Within the myth and in its performance, young, unadorned children must first be swallowed by an ancestral being (who transforms into a giant snake), then regurgitated before being accepted as young adults with all the rights and privileges of young adults.
Could that be the infinitely older origin of Cronus (Time) swallowing his children?
God always was, always is, always will be.
Matter and energy always were, always are, always will be.
What is the difference?
|Here to stay...|
Yeah that Cronus/Saturn motif is an old comet story as in a giant comet breaking off pieces is a regurgitation of the kids. Land is very important like in the land and the king are one for King Arthur movies. The King gets blamed for cataclysmic climate change whether seismic or cosmic (and the two are related).
Yeah particle worldlines keep going and going and even without probabilities for the future bending to meet the past, your brain particles would randomly end up again in a brain eventually. B theory of time preferred by physicists has all universe states existing eternally; we just eternally hop from one eternal state to another.
That could work for me only if I knew why anyone would see flames in the sky emerging from a great light as the equivalent of a baby emerging from the womb. It is not OK just to say they did, we need to say why they did.
I keep seeing no relationship between modern interpretations of mythologies and the way our **** sapiens Great Ape ancestors interpreted their world.
Instead, I see those ancestors making purely pragmatic assessments of what they could not understand and creating perfectly reasonable hypotheses on what those unknowns may be.
Have to say my ASCs have changed my perceptions in a big way. I can come up with that same archaic type of hypotheses then, with no great stretch of the imagination, see how they would evolve as knowledge grew.
Equally, it is easy to see how the Alphas would use their stories as a means of increasing their own power.
I have no problem with that. Given that all the material of the universe once was confined to a singularity and if, as I once read, all atoms/molecules retain some sort of "memory", then those that make us up have that memory. Add in the fact we are a second or third-generation solar system, and there is lots of "memory" in us.
Let's look more closely.
It was not just "human" spirit. These were animists and everything was included in that Spirit. Our modern egos refuse to accept we are just one part of the All, so we egotistically exclude ourselves from the ordinary All; far too superior for that.
The First Australians fully accepted reincarnation, so why do we Christianised Eurocentrics scorn what the first people accepted as fact?
|Here to stay...|
It would not be flames; it would just be like Halley's comet by itself one night then the next night Halley's comet has one or bunch of little comets in front (regurgitate) or behind it(birth).
That's makes sense since ancient myths/history get reused a lot. The Old Testament is seen by scholars as a reuse of Heradotus, Manetho, and Homer. The New Testament is seen by scholars as a reuse of Paul, Asinius Pollio, Josephus, and Homer (Homer gets around).
Sure like with comets and the Book of Enoch I quoted from earlier but that doesn't mean earlier comet watching ideas weren't mixed with newer Zoroaster angel channeling with both being accurate in a folk religion not science sense:
The original Hellenistic writers of the Old Testament and Gospel may have just wanted to write an inspiring epic/passion play not to be taken literally but yes literally any nice thing on this planet that becomes popular becomes ripe for not so nice uses.
Information would be the math/science analog of that memory and it very much effects future probabilities. Channeling is basically information in the present entangled with information in the future (from consciousness like with Zoroaster or not like with Nostradamus).
Well modern channeling has plants/animals as 2nd density; humans as 3rd density; and angels as 4th density and we in previous lives used to be 2nd density plants/animals and we in the future will be angels (assuming we don't get soul crushed back into 1st density inanimate matter first before getting back to plants/animals). So yes plants/animals are our ancestors and we are the ancestors of angels.
There were/are Gnostic Christians who liked reincarnation and my Paleochristian group likes reincarnation. Basically the Polycarp control freaks beat out the Pauline mystery religion dudes. It's interesting watching the behind the scenes control freaks try to control Trump who himself is no slouch at the game. Trump has overall lost though and probably knows it.
Try as I might, still haven't got the foggiest notion of what this originally meant for the creator.
Ezekiel's visions are standard entheogenic, but this one has me bluffed completely.
No doubt it follows that standard mythology pattern, however the message it contains is beyond me.
Was amused at my psychologist's response when I told him I can never understand just how badly wrong Freud got the Oedipus story. My bloke had never heard the original story which blows Freud out of the water.
I doubt the Hellenes had anything to do with the original Jewish writings, though there can be no doubt about their heavy influence much later.
The original "Hebrews" were obviously traitors who rebelled against their (as-yet-unknown) king and turned against their original deities. They borrowed heavily from the Egyptians and Sumerians, and topped it off when they were defeated by the Neo-Babylonian Empire.
The ones I really need to track down were the Akkadians, as I suspect it was there the rebellious Hebrews took the other side. Sargon the Great, of course, was the original Moses, placed in a river in a bulrush ark by his mother. Interesting to note, too, his mother is said to have been a temple priestess, just as Mary, mother of Jesus, also is said to have been a temple priestess.
Nothing unusual about the reincarnation of the First Australians. All that happened when they died was their "spirit" returned to its source, usually a particular tree or into the bodies of tiny fish swimming in billabongs. When they decided to return to life they merely waited until the right mother approached, and back they came into her womb. Was interested to read an autobiography of Waipuldanya, a full-blood Elder of the Alawa tribe at Roper River in Australia's Northern Territory (1923-1989), who still had not fully accepted the modern concept of procreation. While Dad might have a role, it was still initiated by the reincarnated spirit.
I, The Aboriginal by Douglas Lockwood
Just wondered if you saw this on another thread:
If you have not watched I, Claudius I can highly recommend it.
Derek Jacobi leads a brilliant cast, including John Hurt, Brian Blessed and the absolutely frightening Siân Phillips as Livia Drusilla.
|Here to stay...|
The Hellenistic Jews in Alexandria supposedly used their library to put a lot of Herodotus and Manetho and Homer and Plato into it. They didn't really write anything; they kind of just blended things into an epic.
|Here to stay...|
The Paleochristian idea is kind of like that and the more new age idea in that you can hang out as an earth spirit but before choosing a new incarnation you kind of have to do the go into the light thing and then hang around for a possible chosen incarnation.
First time I tried the I Claudius link in the other thread it showed a message saying it wouldn't work in my country and did the same thing this time except after a few seconds it started playing; maybe I didn't wait long enough the first time?
Hope you enjoy it. I've promised myself I see it all again.
Came to respect Derek Jacobi when I first watched it years ago.
Been following up a number of links on the history of the Jews.
No doubt in my mind there are sound mythological messages in their Tanakh, however, as you will expect, what I have been reading reinforces our opinion that most of the Tanakh is straight political legend. They demonised all and sundry who refused to accept their one-deity atheism.
Have known for some time that while there definitely were child sacrifices -- including those Jews who sacrificed their children to YHWH -- most of the references were to passing children through flames as a means of dedicating them to Moloch or whatever god. Sounds much like the First Australian ceremonial practice of smoking to ward off evil spirits.
Burning native plants is an ancient custom among Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. The idea behind these smoking ceremonies? To acknowledge ancestors, ward off evil spirits, and heal and cleanse the place and the participants. Scientists have even proved the medicinal properties of burning emu bush.
Which raises (not begs) the question: how many Biblical and other rituals can best be explained by going back the thousands of years to where they began?
Even some Jewish source open the entire issue: https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...g/the-cult-of-moloch
Another facxt which has been reinforced is the need toi understand Biblical names. As with the Greeks and others, legendary heroes had their names changed to suit their new status as they were promoted ito mythology and legend.
What does the name Isaiah mean? "Salvation of the Lord."
There are seven men endowed with the name Isaiah or Isaiahu in the Bible, but for some reason, the English translations only call the famous prophet Isaiah, and the rest Jeshaiah. This is probably to force a distinction between the famous prophet and his less laureated namesakes but since the original texts don't do that, translations shouldn't do that either. A similar fraudulent distinction exists between the name of the prophet Hosea and his namesakes commonly known as Hoshea.
More on the First Australians:
The cremated remains of the Mungo Lady and the Mungo Man 50 years ago were a landmark archaeological discovery, proving that Indigenous people had inhabited the Australian continent for more than 40,000 years. The oldest ritual burial site on the face of the Earth , the UNESCO Heritage Listed dunes of Lake Mungo dried up millennia ago, fossilising evidence of ancient Aboriginal civilisation in the remote south-west of New South Wales.
Looks like I am going to have to crack open my 18yo Chevas Regal; beer just won't cut it, though my CB is quaffing yet another of our best Reds.
The First Australians had menhir circles, though we have no date. Given that they arrived probably more than 70,000 years ago, where did the concept come from?
The mysterious site is believed to contain 181 standing stones, including sandstone rocks that don’t appear to have occurred there naturally, because the closest sandstone deposit lay more than 20 kilometres away and at the time there were no tools to move them that distance.
In the 1990s, a small rock fragment about the size of a thumbnail was discovered in Western Australia. It was quickly forgotten but was re-examined and was discovered to be a fragment from an ancient axe 46,000–49,000 years old. This would make the axe fragment the oldest axe ever discovered and shows that the Aboriginals were on the cutting-edge of prehistoric technology. Though just a piece of a larger tool, there is enough to give a good idea of what the axe may have looked like.
One just for you from the same site:
As further evidence of remarkable Aborigine oral traditions, legends concerning catastrophic events have proven effective in allowing modern-day researchers to discover disasters throughout Australia. One example is the Henbury meteorite field. It wasn’t found until 1899 and wasn’t recognized as impact sites until 1931, but the Aboriginals near the site maintained legends warning others about the “fire devil“ who struck there over 4,700 years ago.
|Here to stay...|
Yeah it's quite good. They certainly show why Julius Caesar's attempt at reforms had to be done in a power grabbing rather than peaceful way. Didn't even notice that the War Doctor was there until looking it up later. Ian Ogilvy (Return of the Saint) shows up somewhere too.
I think even nicotine is supposed to have been useful against the plague.
Yeah I think "Atlantis" technology included some useful sound technology for moving big stones (and for stones, always interesting to see old myths around old meteorite hits and old post-Eden tool uses).
Had me going for a minute. By War Doctor do you mean John Hurt?
Entheogens Rule OK
You take a pinch of the khaki-green dried leaf before you. You dust it with white ash from a special canister. You grind the mixture with a smooth hard stone. It turns to powder. You reach down, shape it into a pellet and place it just inside your lip. Your saliva seeps into it, it feels hot, it burns. It sinks into you — and suddenly your eyes are clear, the tension eases in your mind, colours seem softer, sounds gentler. All grows calm. The world falls away.
What is this drug, this elixir of rest, this magic plant that smooths out the jagged pains of life? Why, bush tobacco, of course, a pungent, strong-flavoured wild nicotine, thick-leaved, succulent, fast-growing — the much-prized mingkulpa of Western Desert Aboriginal people, a plant that was once the key trade item of the inland, and the focus of intensive pursuit by botanical scientists all through colonial Australia’s frontier phase. A plant of daydreams, if not of dreams, of relaxation, of reflection and inwardness, a gift of the desert’s hills and sand dunes — a plant that grows far from the settled haunts of man yet helped shape Australia’s first human landscape. Half-forgotten now, in the wake of the triumph of modern culture and the coming of new, pre-packaged nicotines, bush tobacco still holds intriguing secrets. There are unique aspects to indigenous life-ways and social structure; there are unique aspects to Australia’s arid rangelands: bush tobacco offers clues that point in their direction.
Must be 60 years or so since I read a book which went deeply into raising monoliths by brain power; no idea now of title or author. Have seen nothing since which provides any evidence of any superior civilisation, though I have long wonder about the silica in the Gobi and elsewhere. Tend to relate that to the legend of Phaethon.
Phaethon was adamant. When the day came, the fierce horses that drew the chariot felt that it was empty because of the lack of the sun-god's weight and went out of control. Terrified, Phaethon dropped the reins. The horses veered from their course, scorching the earth, burning the vegetation, bringing the blood of the Ethiopians to the surface of their skin and so turning it black, changing much of Africa into desert, drying up rivers and lakes and shrinking the sea. Earth cried out to Jupiter who was forced to intervene by striking Phaethon with a lightning bolt. Like a falling star, Phaethon plunged blazing into the river Eridanos.
Still reckon when we finally turn to excavating what is now Turkey it will be an eye-opener:
A stone car with two axles and 4 wheels found during excavations in the Kiziltepe district of the southeastern province of Mardin, Turkey dates back to about 7500 years ago.
This site provides much illumination of how the Jews distorted their history to suit their political needs.
|Never goes away...|
Edinburgh is still fascinating! I found myself first in what seemed to be a college town, on the streets. Later it seemed mostly various tourist and a lot of local shoppers. The grocery story, basically a mini mart, was eclectic but didn’t seem to have regulars. Two signs were posted, one about the shortage of plastics for bottled drink, the other about the inability of CO2. A third one was about the cost increases being about the sugar tax, so to speak! It claimed that the prices were representative of amount of sugar!
I’m already wanting to go back!
It was still Auld Reekie when I was there. I note though, the Scott Monument, the most prominent and soot-ingrained totem of Auld Reekie's past, is to remain black.
Would not have the stamina these days, but I would love to go back home and have a good look around. So much I've missed.
|Never goes away...|
The totem looks veiled in black, as if black mold cake topping, and about as fragile as icing. There were several buildings that looked as if they could use a mild cleaning too. I found myself wondering if they were monuments to pollution! I’ve watched other cleanings, some seem like they are removing their history others seem like they were indeed restored to their beauty.
|Never goes away...|
I must admit I didn’t even see as much smoking in most of the European countries as I did in Scotland! The smallness of the area may just have made it seem that way. Certainly, vaping was also well established. I might add besides the students it seemed many of the smokers may not have been locals!
I kept thinking about Allan, and how he might fit in!
It is also possible that some were travelers trying to smoke what they could not import.
I want a fog machine that will work like the Maxwell Smart cone! Although I’ve played with it being with an obnoxious odor that only have an effect on smokers!
My book came yesterday. Wish I had the time to read it through in just a couple of days...but that ain't gonna happen. Got too many other things going on to dedicate myself to it, no matter how much I'd like to. But it's looking mighty interesting and I'm only on page 100...
Fear: Trump in the White House
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
I would have thought you were going through more than enough agony to want to indulge yourself even further.