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Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
New info on the KJV

https://www.thedailybeast.com/...ing-method-they-hate

He he he.


My thanks, as I missed this one. It explains much.

I was brought up on the KJV in James VI's Scotland, so I know far more than does Candida. No big deal, I was brought up in a different culture.

When trying to communicate with Tonya I repeatedly said the translators themselves, in their preface, said they were not creating a new translation. Instead, they were making existing translations better*. I even listed some of the earlier translators James' scholars used, especially Wycliffe, and the RCC Douay–Rheims NT.

I went to the bother of buying Gordon Campbell's (another Scot) Bible: The Story of the King James Version, 1611-2011. One recollection is none of the king's men knew Koine Greek!

In addition, I pointed out that James insisted his version supported both his belief in the Divine Right of Kings (who mentioned politics?) and his battle with Cromwell's mob, who wanted nothing to do with "Roman" bishops.

*I'm thoroughly confused, probably because of my CB. Was certain I read an extract from the preface in Bryan's link, but now can't find it.

WTF?


Tonya insisted that the “first” KJV. 1614? Was the only God inspired all others were corruptions. That means that one cannot make a translation better! But we sure can make a translation wrong when we used the wrong context!

Ps been reading The fourth Gospel. A lot of stuff I’d been taught, I now have the logic behind at least some of it.
 
Posts: 10864 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
We are in for a long and rainy week due to a tropical disturbance in the Gulf of Mexico. Florida has already been inundated and it is moving our way - then up the east coast.

One or two rainy days don't seem to bother me so much, but if it goes into three or four days - or heaven forbid - a week, I sink into a deep depression. So if I seem out of sorts for the next week or so, that is likely the reason why, so please just forgive me.

And never mind that I just had the lawn mowed and all the hedges trimmed by a new (and more expensive) lawn service. With all this rain, it will be growing like weeds!


Yep we have the week forecasts too, and today’s downpour though short would get you soaked just considering stepping out opin it.
 
Posts: 10864 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
New info on the KJV

https://www.thedailybeast.com/...ing-method-they-hate

He he he.


My thanks, as I missed this one. It explains much.

I was brought up on the KJV in James VI's Scotland, so I know far more than does Candida. No big deal, I was brought up in a different culture.

When trying to communicate with Tonya I repeatedly said the translators themselves, in their preface, said they were not creating a new translation. Instead, they were making existing translations better*. I even listed some of the earlier translators James' scholars used, especially Wycliffe, and the RCC Douay–Rheims NT.

I went to the bother of buying Gordon Campbell's (another Scot) Bible: The Story of the King James Version, 1611-2011. One recollection is none of the king's men knew Koine Greek!

In addition, I pointed out that James insisted his version supported both his belief in the Divine Right of Kings (who mentioned politics?) and his battle with Cromwell's mob, who wanted nothing to do with "Roman" bishops.

*I'm thoroughly confused, probably because of my CB. Was certain I read an extract from the preface in Bryan's link, but now can't find it.

WTF?


Tonya insisted that the “first” KJV. 1614? Was the only God inspired all others were corruptions. That means that one cannot make a translation better! But we sure can make a translation wrong when we used the wrong context!

Ps been reading The fourth Gospel. A lot of stuff I’d been taught, I now have the logic behind at least some of it.

There you are!

Oh, and it's KJV 1611 - some printings also known as the "she" Bible. He he he.
http://eidolonhouse.com/chroni...bible-why-he-and-she


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6580 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
We are in for a long and rainy week due to a tropical disturbance in the Gulf of Mexico. Florida has already been inundated and it is moving our way - then up the east coast.


Yep we have the week forecasts too, and today’s downpour though short would get you soaked just considering stepping out opin it.

Not looking forward to it at all.

It's been in 90ish for the past few days, but with the rain it should hover around the low to mid 80s - which means VERY MUGGY!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6580 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
New info on the KJV

https://www.thedailybeast.com/...ing-method-they-hate

He he he.


My thanks, as I missed this one. It explains much.

I was brought up on the KJV in James VI's Scotland, so I know far more than does Candida. No big deal, I was brought up in a different culture.

When trying to communicate with Tonya I repeatedly said the translators themselves, in their preface, said they were not creating a new translation. Instead, they were making existing translations better*. I even listed some of the earlier translators James' scholars used, especially Wycliffe, and the RCC Douay–Rheims NT.

I went to the bother of buying Gordon Campbell's (another Scot) Bible: The Story of the King James Version, 1611-2011. One recollection is none of the king's men knew Koine Greek!

In addition, I pointed out that James insisted his version supported both his belief in the Divine Right of Kings (who mentioned politics?) and his battle with Cromwell's mob, who wanted nothing to do with "Roman" bishops.

*I'm thoroughly confused, probably because of my CB. Was certain I read an extract from the preface in Bryan's link, but now can't find it.

WTF?


Tonya insisted that the “first” KJV. 1614? Was the only God inspired all others were corruptions. That means that one cannot make a translation better! But we sure can make a translation wrong when we used the wrong context!

Ps been reading The fourth Gospel. A lot of stuff I’d been taught, I now have the logic behind at least some of it.

There you are!

Oh, and it's KJV 1611 - some printings also known as the "she" Bible. He he he.
http://eidolonhouse.com/chroni...bible-why-he-and-she


1611, thanks!
 
Posts: 10864 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah I prefer the modern Cassiopaen channeling which has the Tower of Babel destroyed too and there are other sources for that like Josephus.


I know of no source which says any historic ziggurat was destroyed, though the Jews may have seen an incomplete one.

We can all blame JR for this. Following up on her Barker links I am becoming more than ever convinced that far more of the Bible was created during and after the exile in Babylon than most accept.

Take Job, a rewrite of Ludlul bēl nēmeqi - Wikipedia. It was necessary only because the Jewish priests had to find some excuse to explain how Marduk had defeated Adonai.

Then there is the book of Daniel. Conservative Christians have all sorts of nightmares over this:

Though the book is traditionally ascribed to Daniel himself, modern scholarly consensus considers it pseudonymous, the stories of the first half legendary in origin, and the visions of the second the product of anonymous authors in the Maccabean period (2nd century BC).[5] Its influence has resonated through later ages, from the Dead Sea Scrolls community and the authors of the gospels and Revelation, to various movements from the 2nd century to the Protestant Reformation and modern millennialist movements—on which it continues to have a profound influence.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel

quote:
I'm often OK with more recent things since channeling can be redone at any time. Zoroaster and Vedic sources may be newer than Younger Dryas times or even older 40,000 year old Zurvan lion times but that does not mean they can't be channeling again to get the information again. Modern channeling mentions that Gurdjieff's system of hydrogens which is used to label the Enneagram was clever. I looked at them and realized it was just assigning bivectors in a circular order to the Enneagram's law of 7. As far as I knew I was the only person writing papers assigning Jungian bivectors to Enneagram vertices but really Gurdjieff beat me to it even if instead of using Jung in a clear easy to see way, he used some weird hydrogen element scheme. The scheme though represented bivectors which is better than Collin who just used planets and days of the week. It's like the way the Zodiac points get represented with elements (this is actually a Jungian bivector scheme).


I'm totally out of my depth with this. Arithmetic I can handle, mathematics no.

[/QUOTE]For me, the Guardian of the Cedar Forest was an aura clad comet and the Norse world tree was a glowing rainbow bridge meteor stream in the ecliptic.[/QUOTE]

I know you have a deep interest in meteors, however the only reference I can find re this is a computer game.

Can you please provide links to real strikes and their relevance to specific mythologies and legends?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 3029 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Oh, and it's KJV 1611 - some printings also known as the "she" Bible. He he he.


I prefer this KJV:

... in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:14), the word "not" in the sentence "Thou shalt not commit adultery" was omitted, thus changing the sentence into "Thou shalt commit adultery". This blunder was spread in a number of copies. About a year later, the publishers of the Wicked Bible were called to the Star Chamber and fined £300 (equivalent to £45,844 as of 2016)[1] and deprived of their printing license.[2] The fact that this edition of the Bible contained such a flagrant mistake outraged Charles I and George Abbot, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who said then:
I knew the time when great care was had about printing, the Bibles especially, good compositors and the best correctors were gotten being grave and learned men, the paper and the letter rare, and faire every way of the best, but now the paper is nought, the composers boys, and the correctors unlearned.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_Bible


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 3029 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Enthusiast...
Picture of Allan
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Tonya insisted that the “first” KJV. 1614? Was the only God inspired all others were corruptions. That means that one cannot make a translation better! But we sure can make a translation wrong when we used the wrong context!


Problem is, of course, it was not a translation, just picking the best out of earlier translations.

quote:
Ps been reading The fourth Gospel. A lot of stuff I’d been taught, I now have the logic behind at least some of it.


Care to elaborate?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 3029 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Tonya insisted that the “first” KJV. 1614? Was the only God inspired all others were corruptions. That means that one cannot make a translation better! But we sure can make a translation wrong when we used the wrong context!


Problem is, of course, it was not a translation, just picking the best out of earlier translations.

quote:
Ps been reading The fourth Gospel. A lot of stuff I’d been taught, I now have the logic behind at least some of it.


Care to elaborate?


John is not to be, nor can it be taken literallyand readily make sense. It is based on Jewishness that was readily understood when it was written. Just read the part about logo, again. I’m coming to the problems of literalism and why it fails.

As for the not in the 1611 version, that crossed my mind, but I expect the Authorized 1611 that is currently in circulation does not have that miscopy! As for not being a translation, Tonya would agree. As an inspired text the authors would have been guided on which verses to preserve, after all if English was good enough for Jesus ...
 
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Here to stay...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah I prefer the modern Cassiopaen channeling which has the Tower of Babel destroyed too and there are other sources for that like Josephus.


I know of no source which says any historic ziggurat was destroyed, though the Jews may have seen an incomplete one.


Yeah even Josephus is just quoting the Sibyll. For me we are talking 12,000 years ago in Younger Dryas times so the closest thing to historical Tower of Babel technology would be the 8000 BC Tower of Jericho:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Jericho

quote:
The Tower of Jericho is an 8.5-metre-tall (28 ft) stone structure, built in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic A period around 8000 BCE.[1] It is among the earliest stone monuments of mankind... "We believe this tower was one of the mechanisms to motivate people to take part in a communal lifestyle."


I suspect this technology was quite popular pre-Younger Dryas Impact thus you have similar stories in central American legends (which have the tower destroyed by the Heavens/Thunderbolts instead of the winds of Sibyll/Josephus).

Both Central America and Bible/Sibyll/Josephus have the language confusion thing. The language confusion/communal idea could fit with the modern channeling idea that the towers were originally some kind of psychic technology that people were attempting to rebuild. Supposedly our fascination with obelisks is some kind of psychic archetype for this (Washington monument, 2001 Space Odyssey movie).


quote:
We can all blame JR for this. Following up on her Barker links I am becoming more than ever convinced that far more of the Bible was created during and after the exile in Babylon than most accept.

Take Job, a rewrite of Ludlul bēl nēmeqi - Wikipedia. It was necessary only because the Jewish priests had to find some excuse to explain how Marduk had defeated Adonai.

Then there is the book of Daniel. Conservative Christians have all sorts of nightmares over this:

Though the book is traditionally ascribed to Daniel himself, modern scholarly consensus considers it pseudonymous, the stories of the first half legendary in origin, and the visions of the second the product of anonymous authors in the Maccabean period (2nd century BC).[5] Its influence has resonated through later ages, from the Dead Sea Scrolls community and the authors of the gospels and Revelation, to various movements from the 2nd century to the Protestant Reformation and modern millennialist movements—on which it continues to have a profound influence.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel


Yeah its an epic mishmash; I tend to think Hittite history for Abraham/Jacob/Joseph/Moses with some added Xerxes for Moses and I think some Cyrus for Joseph. There's the Zoroaster influence in Enoch/Isaiah too. Marduk, Ahura Mazda and Yhwh were the same thing.

quote:
I'm totally out of my depth with this. Arithmetic I can handle, mathematics no.


It's not as complicated as it looks; it gets a little messy when you get to the full Shri Yantra since it's a 2-dim projection of a 4-dim space but the Enneagram/Sefirot/Zodiac are only 3-dim which you can think of as Jungian S-N, J-P, and F-T personality traits thus for say Pisces, its water and mutable become the Jungian F (feeling) and P (perceiving) and Jungian FP would be Enneagram 3.

The Zodiac from Pisces to Aquarius ends up in Enneagram numbers: 331749952866. This follows complicatedly from the Zodiac having a Trine symmetry (same trait 120 degrees apart) while the Enneagram has left-right symmetry (opposites adding to 9 and being on the same horizontal row) so yeah for some things it's still messy in 3-dim.

quote:
quote:
For me, the Guardian of the Cedar Forest was an aura clad comet and the Norse world tree was a glowing rainbow bridge meteor stream in the ecliptic.


I know you have a deep interest in meteors, however the only reference I can find re this is a computer game.

Can you please provide links to real strikes and their relevance to specific mythologies and legends?


The Younger Dryas was a strike hence throwing stones over the shoulder for Deucalion but this is more a sky observation thing.

From the book https://www.amazon.com/Cosmic-...-Clube/dp/0876633793

quote:
So huge was the Norse World Tree that its branches stretched out over heaven and earth. It apparently had three main roots and daily reappeared with all the other gods, galloping over the Bifrost that some have identified as the Milky Way, a rainbow bridge that glowed with fire. We wonder whether it was really a meteor stream in the ecliptic. As it grew and flourished, the tree was continually threatened by the living creatures that preyed upon it. On the topmost branch sat an eagle of whom it is said the flapping of its wings caused the winds in the world of men. At the root of the tree lay a great serpent with many scores of lesser snakes and these gnawed continuously at Yggdrasil. The serpent was at war with the eagle … the celestial aspects, e.g. the diurnal reappearance, is clear, and the vision of a vast ever-changing complex of cometary bodies hurtling together around the sky seems to emerge without much difficulty. Once again, we detect a hierarchy of genealogy among the gods: first the Tree of Life gives birth to Loki … Loki seems in due course to be the progenitor of Surt, who may also be Balder due one day to return from the dead. Surt is thus the Apollo of Greek mythology and Thoth (later Osiris) of Egyptian mythology.


For the Guardian of the Cedar Forest:

quote:
Let’s go back even further and take a look at these older Comet Gods...

Gilgamesh feels sorry for Huwawa and wants to release him, but Enkidu doesn’t like that idea; he kills Huwawa and puts his head in a sack to give to the god Enlil (shades of Medusa and Goliath). However, Enlil curses both of the adventurers for killing the divinely appointed Guardian of the Cedar Forest and distributes the seven auras to Nature. Most of this makes it into the later Epic of Gilgamesh.

Nevertheless, for our purposes here, Humbaba/Huwawa is an interesting comparison to Cúchulainn. His face was “as that of a lion. When he looks at someone, it is the look of death.” His roar was as that of a flood, his “mouth is death and his breath is fire!” His face is described as like coiled entrails, which harkens back to the ‘warp-spasm’ of Cúchulainn.

Knight-Jadczyk, Laura. Comets and the Horns of Moses (The Secret History of the World) (p. 169-171). Red Pill Press. Kindle Edition.
 
Posts: 1051 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
John is not to be, nor can it be taken literally and readily make sense. It is based on Jewishness that was readily understood when it was written. Just read the part about logo, again. I’m coming to the problems of literalism and why it fails.

I placed it in my Amazon cart, but I hope he doesn't say things like "It is based on Jewishness" 'cause Miz Barker and I will take great exception to that!

You see, according to Barker's thesis (which is based on considerable research by the Society for Old Testament Study), John's Gospel is based in the PRE-Jewish religion (prior to the Northern Kingdom of Israel's exile and prior to the Hezekiah/Josiah reforms). IOW, the "Jewish religion" (post-Babylonian exile) is a combination of those reforms and a mixture of Babylonian concepts.

But it is even murkier than that because they didn't remove all the pre-Babylonian stuff in many cases - but just tried to weave it into the text and work around it. In many cases, there are 2 sets of documents being woven together, i.e., the entire Genesis 1 & 2 creation story(ies), along with the Genesis 32 story where Jacob "called the place Peniel [face to face], saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared" in addition to the Exodus story where Moses "spoke mouth to mouth [face to face] with the LORD" and Deuteronomy 4:15 "you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you."

The Masorete rabbis had to do some real fancy footwork to dance to that tune! In most cases they tied themselves in knots. But then, they lean very much into literalism too, which causes its own set of difficulties.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6580 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
John is not to be, nor can it be taken literally and readily make sense. It is based on Jewishness that was readily understood when it was written. Just read the part about logo, again. I’m coming to the problems of literalism and why it fails.

I placed it in my Amazon cart, but I hope he doesn't say things like "It is based on Jewishness" 'cause Miz Barker and I will take great exception to that!

You see, according to Barker's thesis (which is based on considerable research by the Society for Old Testament Study), John's Gospel is based in the PRE-Jewish religion (prior to the Northern Kingdom of Israel's exile and prior to the Hezekiah/Josiah reforms). IOW, the "Jewish religion" (post-Babylonian exile) is a combination of those reforms and a mixture of Babylonian concepts.

But it is even murkier than that because they didn't remove all the pre-Babylonian stuff in many cases - but just tried to weave it into the text and work around it. In many cases, there are 2 sets of documents being woven together, i.e., the entire Genesis 1 & 2 creation story(ies), along with the Genesis 32 story where Jacob "called the place Peniel [face to face], saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared" in addition to the Exodus story where Moses "spoke mouth to mouth [face to face] with the LORD" and Deuteronomy 4:15 "you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you."

The Masorete rabbis had to do some real fancy footwork to dance to that tune! In most cases they tied themselves in knots. But then, they lean very much into literalism too, which causes its own set of difficulties.


It’s chapter 4. Iirc, the point was that all the authors wrote in Greek, and while some of that influence is there there are clearly things a Jewish community understood and related too. I was intrigued with the concept about including liturgical, but haven’t gotten to his point.
 
Posts: 10864 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
It’s chapter 4. Iirc, the point was that all the authors wrote in Greek, and while some of that influence is there there are clearly things a Jewish community understood and related too. I was intrigued with the concept about including liturgical, but haven’t gotten to his point.

OK, that is more like it.

And, as Barker points out, there was much of the more ancient (First Temple) religion still found in the Alexandria, Egypt Temple - and so there are points of contact with Philo's and John's writings.

BTW, you doin' alright through the storms?

We were expecting some of it here today, but the worst of it stayed far south and north of us. It started getting cloudy about mid-day, but so far just a few pop-ups. That is about to change though... We are expecting considerable rain through Friday or maybe even Saturday, with intermittent storms.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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Allan, I see you poking about and I wish I could stay and chat, but my face is about to smash into this keyboard...

Good night and God bless.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah even Josephus is just quoting the Sibyll. For me we are talking 12,000 years ago in Younger Dryas times so the closest thing to historical Tower of Babel technology would be the 8000 BC Tower of Jericho:


I suspect this technology was quite popular pre-Younger Dryas Impact thus you have similar stories in central American legends (which have the tower destroyed by the Heavens/Thunderbolts instead of the winds of Sibyll/Josephus).

Both Central America and Bible/Sibyll/Josephus have the language confusion thing. The language confusion/communal idea could fit with the modern channeling idea that the towers were originally some kind of psychic technology that people were attempting to rebuild. Supposedly our fascination with obelisks is some kind of psychic archetype for this (Washington monument, 2001 Space Odyssey movie).
[/QUOTE]

For me, our "experts" have got it all wrong. Doesn't help when your Tower of Jericho is still standing!!!!

I've been reminded of an argument about the Aquatic Ape I had with a uni-educated English sub-editor back in the 90s. He scoffed at the concept, then came back the next day to apologise after he had checked it up.

I remember thinking way back then that the dismissive experts were missing the obvious. They could find no clear evidence of this ape.

Why?

Because they failed to take into account rising sea levels which would have inundated the mangrove swamps those apes lived in. Have you ever seen apes living in such circumstances? I have, and they look uncomfortably human.

While I have some reservations about Baigent (his work sometimes seems dated even though he was writing in the late 90s), he makes a valid point when he discusses Çatal Hüyük, the first known large-scale settlement (up to 6000 people; Jericho some 2000). They seem to have popped up out of nowhere.

Baigent stresses the undeniable fact that vast areas of coastal land were wiped out by the end of the Ice Age, and suggests that the entire origin of farming settlements lies at least 300ft under water.

Fits in sweetly with Oppenheimer's hypothesis that a relatively advanced civilisation was wiped out that way in what is now Indonesia, the survivors possibly the original, still unidentified, Sumerians.

I stress relatively advanced because, much as I like Marion Zimmer Bradley's views on Atlantis, I fear Atlantis' origins gave been much exaggerated.

Nevertheless, we do have many legends of sea-faring strangers appearing out of the blue [literally as well as metaphorically], bringing a higher level of civilisation to countries such as Egypt.

Baigent hammers the point that orthodox science is perfectly happy with conventional interpretations, and provides many examples of where science has ignored evidence which contradicts what they need to believe.

Be interesting to get deep into the cellars of the Smithsonian.

So, while I like Atlantis, I reckon orthodox science has lost the plot. We were indeed relatively civilised before our modern record begins some 10,000 years ago.

quote:
Yeah its an epic mishmash; I tend to think Hittite history for Abraham/Jacob/Joseph/Moses with some added Xerxes for Moses and I think some Cyrus for Joseph. There's the Zoroaster influence in Enoch/Isaiah too. Marduk, Ahura Mazda and Yhwh were the same thing.


I know I keep harping on about our Christianised Eurocentrism, however it is the only reason I can think of to explain why the orthodox focus on the central Levant when there are far more relevant excavations needed elsewhere, in that region from Greece through to the Balkans.

Without the influence of Christianity in the West over the past 1500 years, we would be far less dismissive of cultures which are much older and more knowledgeable than those nomadic Jewish tribes. Remember, too, that my Ultra-Orthodox poster insisted there were no Hebrews before Abram. Instead, they were rebels who broke away from Akkad.

The Semitic Akkad, so far as I can find out, was the first known empire, yet we dismiss one of those emperors as a mere rebel of no importance.

Without Christianised Eurocentrism Israel would not exist, Netanyahu would be out of a job, and we would all be infinitely safer.

MTC


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 3029 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Allan, I see you poking about and I wish I could stay and chat, but my face is about to smash into this keyboard...

Good night and God bless.


Not to worry, m'dear.

Am taking off shortly, with much to do.

Make the most of your sleep.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 3029 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Enthusiast...
Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
But it is even murkier than that because they didn't remove all the pre-Babylonian stuff in many cases - but just tried to weave it into the text and work around it. In many cases, there are 2 sets of documents being woven together, i.e., the entire Genesis 1 & 2 creation story(ies), along with the Genesis 32 story where Jacob "called the place Peniel [face to face], saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared" in addition to the Exodus story where Moses "spoke mouth to mouth [face to face] with the LORD" and Deuteronomy 4:15 "you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you."


You can't help yourself can ya, mate. Talk about stirring the possum.

In fact, Jacob's fight was a traditional battle for kingship between brothers.

Jacob defeated Esau and became king.

So what's with the limp?

Robert Graves once again, this time The White Goddess; he says Jacob's limp was that of the courting dance of the **** partridge. As king, Jacob's sacred heel had to be kept off the ground, exactly what the partridge does in his strutting mating dance. Those of you who know the Bible may remember another Jewish king whose thigh was supported by a servant.

Remember, when Jacob was born he emerged grasping his twin brother Esau's heel and he was therefore named 'Heel-Catcher'.

So obviously that heel-snatching did not happen at their birth. That tale symbolised the younger brother usurping the true king's role.

Heading towards dinner time, so JR has given me another assignment which will keep me awake just when I desperately need a good night's sleep.

This isn't Graves, but will have to do for now:

http://www.clinicalgaitanalysis.com/art/religion.html
The dance floor at Knossos could also have served as a threshing floor for grain, such as that of Atad mentioned in Genesis, 50: 11. The partridge is related to a limping dance performed at Carmel during Pesach, the Passover Feast, that appears to have been a Canaanite Spring festival which the tribe of Joseph adopted and transformed into a commemoration of their escape from Egypt under Moses....The proverb quoted by Jeremiah: "The partridge gathers young she has not brought forth," means that Jewish men and women were attracted to these alien orgiastic rites. So also the understanding Titian gives us a glimpse of a partridge through the window of the room in which his naked Love-goddess is lasciviously meditating fresh conquests.

My CB is loving this. It is not that long ago She prompted me to post about the wren. Seems the partridge, like the wren, figures in Native American mythology.


That lascivious **** means much more, so that's even less sleep for me

When we read the above link, we see even more evidence of how little most folk understand mythology. Why did so many great cultures build reams of mythology around what we today pay little if any attention to? Hephaestus, the god of metallurgy, sculptors, volcanoes, artisans and technology in general, was not the only legendary hero with a much-storied limp.

http://www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art395.htm
Accounts explaining Hephaestus' immobility (he moved about with the aid of a special chariot he constructed) vary widely. According to the most popular, as an ugly infant he was pushed from Mount Olympus into the sea by either Zeus or Hera, and was injured during the fall, breaking a leg that never healed properly and never learning to walk. Thetis, a sea nymph, found him and raised him as her own son.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 3029 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
It’s chapter 4. Iirc, the point was that all the authors wrote in Greek, and while some of that influence is there there are clearly things a Jewish community understood and related too. I was intrigued with the concept about including liturgical, but haven’t gotten to his point.

OK, that is more like it.

And, as Barker points out, there was much of the more ancient (First Temple) religion still found in the Alexandria, Egypt Temple - and so there are points of contact with Philo's and John's writings.

BTW, you doin' alright through the storms?

We were expecting some of it here today, but the worst of it stayed far south and north of us. It started getting cloudy about mid-day, but so far just a few pop-ups. That is about to change though... We are expecting considerable rain through Friday or maybe even Saturday, with intermittent storms.


We drove through a milder thunder boomer, but the previous evening there was a serious one without being news worthy. The uprooted trees are east of us as well as most of the lightening.
 
Posts: 10864 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
But it is even murkier than that because they didn't remove all the pre-Babylonian stuff in many cases - but just tried to weave it into the text and work around it. In many cases, there are 2 sets of documents being woven together, i.e., the entire Genesis 1 & 2 creation story(ies), along with the Genesis 32 story where Jacob "called the place Peniel [face to face], saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared" in addition to the Exodus story where Moses "spoke mouth to mouth [face to face] with the LORD" and Deuteronomy 4:15 "you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you."


You can't help yourself can ya, mate. Talk about stirring the possum.

In fact, Jacob's fight was a traditional battle for kingship between brothers.

Jacob defeated Esau and became king.

So what's with the limp?

Robert Graves once again, this time The White Goddess; he says Jacob's limp was that of the courting dance of the **** partridge. As king, Jacob's sacred heel had to be kept off the ground, exactly what the partridge does in his strutting mating dance. Those of you who know the Bible may remember another Jewish king whose thigh was supported by a servant.

Remember, when Jacob was born he emerged grasping his twin brother Esau's heel and he was therefore named 'Heel-Catcher'.

So obviously that heel-snatching did not happen at their birth. That tale symbolised the younger brother usurping the true king's role.

Heading towards dinner time, so JR has given me another assignment which will keep me awake just when I desperately need a good night's sleep.

This isn't Graves, but will have to do for now:

http://www.clinicalgaitanalysis.com/art/religion.html
The dance floor at Knossos could also have served as a threshing floor for grain, such as that of Atad mentioned in Genesis, 50: 11. The partridge is related to a limping dance performed at Carmel during Pesach, the Passover Feast, that appears to have been a Canaanite Spring festival which the tribe of Joseph adopted and transformed into a commemoration of their escape from Egypt under Moses....The proverb quoted by Jeremiah: "The partridge gathers young she has not brought forth," means that Jewish men and women were attracted to these alien orgiastic rites. So also the understanding Titian gives us a glimpse of a partridge through the window of the room in which his naked Love-goddess is lasciviously meditating fresh conquests.

My CB is loving this. It is not that long ago She prompted me to post about the wren. Seems the partridge, like the wren, figures in Native American mythology.


That lascivious **** means much more, so that's even less sleep for me

When we read the above link, we see even more evidence of how little most folk understand mythology. Why did so many great cultures build reams of mythology around what we today pay little if any attention to? Hephaestus, the god of metallurgy, sculptors, volcanoes, artisans and technology in general, was not the only legendary hero with a much-storied limp.

http://www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art395.htm
Accounts explaining Hephaestus' immobility (he moved about with the aid of a special chariot he constructed) vary widely. According to the most popular, as an ugly infant he was pushed from Mount Olympus into the sea by either Zeus or Hera, and was injured during the fall, breaking a leg that never healed properly and never learning to walk. Thetis, a sea nymph, found him and raised him as her own son.


I received this today
https://www.biblicalarchaeolog...m_campaign=ZE8A5PZ32

Almost like you knew it was coming!
 
Posts: 10864 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
Here to stay...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
For me, our "experts" have got it all wrong. Doesn't help when your Tower of Jericho is still standing!!!!

Yes the Jericho Tower would just be an example of what was being rebuilt shortly after the Younger Dryas impacts (in Central America and the Near East.) It was 2000 years later so it wasn't a knocked down thing. Course knocked down in the Younger Dryas context could be smaller scale impacts from the same periodic swarm during an attempt at a rebuild.

quote:
...Fits in sweetly with Oppenheimer's hypothesis that a relatively advanced civilisation was wiped out that way in what is now Indonesia, the survivors possibly the original, still unidentified, Sumerians...

So, while I like Atlantis, I reckon orthodox science has lost the plot. We were indeed relatively civilised before our modern record begins some 10,000 years ago.


I suspect there were survivors were in outposts outside Sundaland to try to restart things but that isn't easy. I would not be surprised if Sundaland like Plato mentioned, was a confederation of different groups (Sumer-like, Celt-like, Polynesian-like, New Guinea aborigine-like). Cataclysms of any kind tend to wipe out a lot of evidence and the scale of the Younger Dryas impacts would especially do so.

quote:
...Remember, too, that my Ultra-Orthodox poster insisted there were no Hebrews before Abram. Instead, they were rebels who broke away from Akkad.

The Semitic Akkad, so far as I can find out, was the first known empire, yet we dismiss one of those emperors as a mere rebel of no importance.

Without Christianised Eurocentrism Israel would not exist, Netanyahu would be out of a job, and we would all be infinitely safer.
If you trace the religion, history, and social group back to their roots, you could end up with three very different looking paths.
 
Posts: 1051 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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