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Amazon Mob's Pub & Coffee Shop Part II
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Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
How does the Talmud handle it?


You have any idea how many volumes there are in the Talmudim?

Yeah, enough to know that I have insufficient room for it!

https://www.artscroll.com/Categories/DT3.html


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4334 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
That is not what I get from the Bible. If one follows Jesus' instructions, they are told to unite/fellowship/become one with each other and with God:
"I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one--as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me."
Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst [or 'within you'].”


Which is not quite like what this ICB bloke sees as spiritual fellowship, Oneness.

Especially in our ASC, we see the entire universe made up of the same atoms which were there right at the beginning. Just as we are a second- or third-generation solar system, so those atoms are being constantly recycled. Missed a chance on our last forum to find support for the concept that atoms in some way have a "memory" of what they experience. If so, our atoms "sense" in some way that they have been here before in other forms, and are an integral part of the One.

quote:
I'm not just slashing out there. Take my Brahman concept; what possible fellowship can there be with a mind capable of creating a 200billion-galaxy universe, with all its wonders, and any human brain? It's like expecting a new-born baby to play a key active role at a quantum-physics seminar.
JR: And yet a toddler can have a relationship with his genius father... Stop thinking of it in terms of the intellect and start looking at it in terms of spiritual unity.


I am.

Difference is, ICB's entheogenic spirituality is totally different from the spirituality experienced by those who have no access to this essential map. You'll remember a dear friend who almost certainly had access to a greater supply of MDA than do most. SIA "knew", IMO.

Since we all create our deities in our own image, ICB's Brahman concept is reinforced every time we enter an ASC.

When we are there, we experience the Brahman concept as a mind which "knows and is" every single fact of the entire universe.

Imagine having a mind which experiences and "knows" every single thing that happens.

One of the childhood memories (c1946?) which has stuck with me was sitting on the hills behind where I lived, looking down over the Clyde River with a warship heading towards Glasgow. Beside me somewhere was the now-gone Mill Dam. It was an integral part of our community, people sailing their model boats and catching the tadpoles and baggy minnows. On the way home I passed those little individually owned vegetable plots which were once so important to those living in the tenements. I have always related to mountains, rivers, trees (especially the big, really old ones), and can sit happily on a beach doing nothing more than soaking in the atmosphere.

Imagine, then, that Brahman mind actually being part of every single thing that happens in the universe right from the beginning.
Ephasise, as just one tiny example, being every atom of every particle of silt which, over countless millennia, was washed from somewhere to build up the layers which make up, say, the Grand Canyon, being there when those later rose from the bottom of a sea to become a mountain then, again over countless time, have a river slowly carve away the canyon.

Not all that different from the original animism the Abrahamic religions mock and trivialise.

Compare that with the spiritual "fellowship" of those who experience a 6000yo universe.

Not the same thing at all.

The Brahmins, unlike any Abrahamic leader I know, happily accept we are all on our own individual personal path between animist awareness, through polytheism, henotheism, monolatry, monotheism, to Nirvana. Worship the Rainbow Serpent, Adonai, Kali, Ganesha, Odin, Thor, Cernunnos, or whoever, one will finally be One with the Brahman.

"He no longer saw the face of his friend Siddhartha, instead he saw other faces, many, a long sequence, a flowing river of faces, of hundreds, of thousands, which all came and disappeared, and yet all seemed to be there simultaneously, which all constantly changed and renewed themselves, and which were still all Siddhartha." - From Herman Hesse's Siddhartha

quote:
Oh, how I do wish you could get your head out of the literal and start looking at it mystically/mythologically! Duck!   :duck:


Try me over a Bailey's or three, along with my entheogen.

I'm as literal as any proof-reader must be, however I'm also on the way to being as spiritual as any Brahmin.

Don't doubt for a nano-second that countless adherents of the Abrahamic religious have found and still find fulfilment.

At the same time, I look at the lack of Hindu acceptance which has cost the indigenous peoples of Africa, Australia and New Zealand, the Americas from north to south, untold death and misery along with the virtually total loss of their historic cultures, as the Abrahamic peoples invade and conquer them for the Almighty Dollar.

We lost almost everything of the central and southern American civilisations thanks to the zealous Christians who burnt and otherwise destroyed everything they could get their hands on.

Then there is the little matter of Jung's synchronicity which I learned through my bookish mentor Robert Graves. Went looking for the definition of monolatry and found this:

https://www.quora.com/What-is-...-Are-they-synonymous
In the seventh century BCE King Josiah initiated a drive to monolatry for all Israelites, by insisting on the worship of one god (Yahweh), and prohibiting the worship of other gods. Priests of other gods were round up and killed, and shrines and Asherah poles were destroyed and removed from Yahweh's temple. I have discussed this in more detail here:
Frans du Plessis's answer to Was the Bible deliberately altered for political purposes or to support one theology over another?

Seems someone else sees religion and politics working hand in glove, wouldn't you say?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1606 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Same atoms as in the beginning? Nope. Stars make heavier atoms out of lighter ones, starting with hydrogen.
 
Posts: 9025 | Location: Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-17-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
That is not what I get from the Bible. If one follows Jesus' instructions, they are told to unite/fellowship/become one with each other and with God:
"I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one--as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me."
Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst [or 'within you'].”


Which is not quite like what this ICB bloke sees as spiritual fellowship, Oneness.

I don't know why you see them differently. I don't.

IF it is as I see it, then the One True God is Omnipresent. That means that we all, and everything else, exist within God. We are like a bunch of little ants in the anthill of God. Or, if you prefer, we are like masses of atoms making up the Universe.

And IF God is Spirit, then there is no way, if the above is true, that we don't all share in the same Spirit. The difficulty is in waking up to it in the darkness of churchianity.

But fear not. Slowly, but surely, the wheels of ecumenism are turning, and it has got a lot of darkness to overcome, yet I have faith that it will eventually overcome it. The pews of churchianity are already emptying out.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4334 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
JR: And yet a toddler can have a relationship with his genius father... Stop thinking of it in terms of the intellect and start looking at it in terms of spiritual unity.


I am.

Difference is, ICB's entheogenic spirituality is totally different from the spirituality experienced by those who have no access to this essential map. You'll remember a dear friend who almost certainly had access to a greater supply of MDA than do most. SIA "knew", IMO.

Since we all create our deities in our own image, ICB's Brahman concept is reinforced every time we enter an ASC.

While my experiences have not been as grand as SIA's, I also know. Humanity has not yet invented the words that could adequately describe the One True God. I'm not sure that they ever will.


quote:
When we are there, we experience the Brahman concept as a mind which "knows and is" every single fact of the entire universe.

Imagine having a mind which experiences and "knows" every single thing that happens.

I cannot. And though I have had experiences wherein I sense that God is Omniscient, it's still impossible for me to actually fathom it.

quote:
One of the childhood memories (c1946?) which has stuck with me was sitting on the hills behind where I lived, looking down over the Clyde River with a warship heading towards Glasgow. Beside me somewhere was the now-gone Mill Dam. It was an integral part of our community, people sailing their model boats and catching the tadpoles and baggy minnows. On the way home I passed those little individually owned vegetable plots which were once so important to those living in the tenements. I have always related to mountains, rivers, trees (especially the big, really old ones), and can sit happily on a beach doing nothing more than soaking in the atmosphere.

Imagine, then, that Brahman mind actually being part of every single thing that happens in the universe right from the beginning.
Ephasise, as just one tiny example, being every atom of every particle of silt which, over countless millennia, was washed from somewhere to build up the layers which make up, say, the Grand Canyon, being there when those later rose from the bottom of a sea to become a mountain then, again over countless time, have a river slowly carve away the canyon.

Not all that different from the original animism the Abrahamic religions mock and trivialise.

Compare that with the spiritual "fellowship" of those who experience a 6000yo universe.

Not the same thing at all.

Actually, it's worse than you portray it to be; they actually believe without understanding.

But I know that neither you nor I will ever be able to change their piddly little minds by mocking them. They have spent their entire lives afraid to let their spirits soar. It scares the daylight out of them. What they really need is a safe place to let it soar. THEN...MAYBE...their minds will open and they, too, will know.

Patience, my dear Watson. Patience.

Trust me, I have to remind myself of that continuously.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4334 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Henry J:
Same atoms as in the beginning? Nope. Stars make heavier atoms out of lighter ones, starting with hydrogen.


Heavier atoms?

Or more complex elements?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1606 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I don't know why you see them differently. I don't.
IF it is as I see it, then the One True God is Omnipresent. That means that we all, and everything else, exist within God. We are like a bunch of little ants in the anthill of God. Or, if you prefer, we are like masses of atoms making up the Universe.
And IF God is Spirit, then there is no way, if the above is true, that we don't all share in the same Spirit. The difficulty is in waking up to it in the darkness of churchianity.
But fear not. Slowly, but surely, the wheels of ecumenism are turning, and it has got a lot of darkness to overcome, yet I have faith that it will eventually overcome it. The pews of churchianity are already emptying out.


We are like a bunch of little ants in the anthill of God.

How much deeply personal communicative fellowship do you have with the ants in your house and garden?

Sounds very much like what I said some time back, having fellowship with the little beasties which live in and are essential to our gut.

Buddhism, anyone?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1606 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I don't know why you see them differently. I don't.
IF it is as I see it, then the One True God is Omnipresent. That means that we all, and everything else, exist within God. We are like a bunch of little ants in the anthill of God. Or, if you prefer, we are like masses of atoms making up the Universe.
And IF God is Spirit, then there is no way, if the above is true, that we don't all share in the same Spirit. The difficulty is in waking up to it in the darkness of churchianity.
But fear not. Slowly, but surely, the wheels of ecumenism are turning, and it has got a lot of darkness to overcome, yet I have faith that it will eventually overcome it. The pews of churchianity are already emptying out.


We are like a bunch of little ants in the anthill of God.

How much deeply personal communicative fellowship do you have with the ants in your house and garden?

Sounds very much like what I said some time back, having fellowship with the little beasties which live in and are essential to our gut.

Buddhism, anyone?

I'm not saying that we can or do have a 'personal relationship' with The One True God in in the same way that we have with our family and friends. What I am saying is that when we treat others as we would be treated, then we are treating them as if they were God - because they are the children of God no less than we are!

IMHO, ecumenism is the road to that reality.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4334 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Henry J:
Same atoms as in the beginning? Nope. Stars make heavier atoms out of lighter ones, starting with hydrogen.


Heavier atoms?

Or more complex elements?

Exactly!

Higher atomic numbers. After H there are He, Li, Be, etc., Fe, etc., U.
 
Posts: 9025 | Location: Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-17-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
We are like a bunch of little ants in the anthill of God.

But, anthills were built by, well, ants.
 
Posts: 9025 | Location: Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-17-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Henry J:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
We are like a bunch of little ants in the anthill of God.

But, anthills were built by, well, ants.


To each his own, eh, mate.

In passing, my National Geographic genome test says my Dad's and my Mum's ancestors left Africa at different times, and came to Europe and Britain by different routes.

Not a single mention of any of those ancestors being related to Adam and Eve or to any of Noah's families.

No mention, either, of any having to escape a mountain-high flood on their way to the UK.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1606 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I'm not saying that we can or do have a 'personal relationship' with The One True God in in the same way that we have with our family and friends. What I am saying is that when we treat others as we would be treated, then we are treating them as if they were God - because they are the children of God no less than we are!
IMHO, ecumenism is the road to that reality.


I'm more inclined to go with those who say that, since we are all One, any harm we do to others, even to our planet, we do to ourselves.

With you all the way on ecumenism, despite what others say about it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1606 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
JR: We are like a bunch of little ants in the anthill of God.

Allan: How much deeply personal communicative fellowship do you have with the ants in your house and garden?

Sounds very much like what I said some time back, having fellowship with the little beasties which live in and are essential to our gut.

Guess I wasn't as clear as I intended. Ants work in unison toward the same goal. Therefore, IF we ever get to the point that we can see ourselves as the ants in the anthill of God, we may well be able to understand our relationship to both God and our fellow man.

quote:
Buddhism, anyone?

I hope that works for you. Just don't try playing that silly game of "my religion is better than your religion" stuff with me, because I'm fully aware that bloody wars have also been perpetrated by Buddhists.

In fact, I can find no major religion that's free of bloodshed. Even atheists aren't free of it. So gimme a break.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4334 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I hope that works for you. Just don't try playing that silly game of "my religion is better than your religion" stuff with me, because I'm fully aware that bloody wars have also been perpetrated by Buddhists.


My religion???

I thought you, of all people, knew me better.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1606 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I hope that works for you. Just don't try playing that silly game of "my religion is better than your religion" stuff with me, because I'm fully aware that bloody wars have also been perpetrated by Buddhists.


My religion???

I thought you, of all people, knew me better.


Would you have preferred she had said, be reasonable do it my way? Personally I’ve hadabout all I can take of that!
 
Posts: 5245 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I hope that works for you. Just don't try playing that silly game of "my religion is better than your religion" stuff with me, because I'm fully aware that bloody wars have also been perpetrated by Buddhists.


My religion???

I thought you, of all people, knew me better.

Please. You consistently tout the Brahman as superior to the Abrahamic god, and the god you would prefer if you were to claim a god. You just as consistently paint the Abrahamic god using the worst colors found in the OT, deliberately leaving out the pretty colors of agape.

Maybe it's time you considered a different approach in discussing our beliefs. One minus the continual rhetorical bashing you reserve specifically for the Biblical god. I grow tired of trying to either defend a version of the biblical god that doesn't even come close to the god I believe in, or joining you in the bashing you reserve for the biblical god. I stated my beliefs very plainly in an earlier post:

No one has a monopoly on God, imho. There is no such thing as the "Christian God" or "Jewish God" or "Muslim God", "Mithraic God", etc., for God is not owned by any one nor any religion. And while any religion can be hijacked by unscrupulous political factions, neither God nor the path to God can be. One simply has to dispense with the "political version" (which in Christianity I call churchianity) and open themselves to finding the spiritual version.

I hope I have made myself clear. Because if I haven't, I will terminate my discussions regarding religion altogether, for I do no find this current method conducive to spiritual growth for me.

Hmmm, I just realized that I've come to the same place SIA came to when she left Amazon...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4334 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I hope that works for you. Just don't try playing that silly game of "my religion is better than your religion" stuff with me, because I'm fully aware that bloody wars have also been perpetrated by Buddhists.


My religion???

I thought you, of all people, knew me better.


Would you have preferred she had said, be reasonable do it my way? Personally I’ve hadabout all I can take of that!

I think I've grown tired of covering the same grounds over and over again. We never seem to reach a higher ground.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 4334 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I hope that works for you. Just don't try playing that silly game of "my religion is better than your religion" stuff with me, because I'm fully aware that bloody wars have also been perpetrated by Buddhists.


My religion???

I thought you, of all people, knew me better.


Would you have preferred she had said, be reasonable do it my way? Personally I’ve hadabout all I can take of that!

I think I've grown tired of covering the same grounds over and over again. We never seem to reach a higher ground.


As long as there is someone left behind the ground will still need to be covered, but I agree I’m tired of not moving myself forward!
 
Posts: 5245 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
As long as there is someone left behind the ground will still need to be covered, but I agree I’m tired of not moving myself forward!

I think you and I have moved passed all that...but maybe our dear ol' Allan hasn't just yet...

Think we should throw him a rope and drag to higher ground?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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It's a cold and rainy night and I was in the mood for something a little bluesy or maybe some hollerin'.

How 'bout some Cry Baby:

Garnet Mimms & the Enchanters

Janis Joplin

This one pleasantly surprised me:
Melanie Masson


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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