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Devoted...![]() |
I've started a new topic The Mob's Pub & Coffee Shop Part III. Let's copy and paste any posts from here to the new one before we answer it so that this one doesn't go over 50 pages. Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny | |||
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I’m about half way through God Delusion, and my perception is at times he is trying to hard. Nevertheless, the need to teach culture and ultimately acsort of religion does lead to getting into auto mode and not expanding ones thinking, or as he calls it giving religion a past. My comment about your demon, was mostly about whether you wished you hadn’t been so indoctrinated and too slow to discard the useless parts. Rationally you express well why religion or mythology is needed. The question was had you completely, accepted that or were you still wishing it weren’t so! | |||
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I love playing with words, but it needs to be in person both for clarity and effect. | |||
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Absolutely! | |||
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I can identify with that! I have to start over, it seems, whenever I meet a new group so that definitions are closer to being understood. | |||
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I remember being faced with the concept, in government class, about whether one believed man was basically good or bad. The answer to that question was reflected in the laws of tribe. I struggled with it, at first, because I couldn’t reconcile what I had been taught about sinners and our laws basically assume man is good. The problem with locks only keep honest men honest took a while to recognize and conclude men would thus have to be basically good. Then what to do with the sinner stuff! That isn’t really a flaw except perhaps in character or training. At any rate that was all in the muddle of the old beliefs, of others, weren’t working and likely never would, at least for me! If man is flawed does that mean God makes junk! And homosexuality is a flaw, and not design? | |||
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Got it but need a computer for the pastes. | |||
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Enthusiast... |
One reason you may think I am stuck in a rut is, as I keep saying, it seems I am not communicating effectively. Instead, it just may be a sheer lack of interest on your part which prevents you from responding to my questions. Others do, which makes all the difference to me. I do not doubt that some, at least, of my search will seem trivial to other posters. However, I do have sound grounds for the fields of research I follow. One reason is I do want to get back to my volunteer tutoring, and have a long way to go to learn what I need. It does work for some, as there have been students who told me they see themselves in a far more positive light, many passing exams and moving on successfully. I fully understand and accept that for some it is impossible to see mythology the way I do, having a direct and powerful impact on the unity of behaviour management/control, social and career education, religion, and politics. For me, it is not possible to understand any of this without seeing it as one. Seem to remember a number of people on that earlier forum who decided to take on Bryan and me in order to prove us wrong. After carrying out their own research they decided that, instead, it was they themselves who needed to re-examine the track they were on. Bryan and I are coming from our own separate directions, and that group did not agree fully with either of us, however the work they did produced rewards for themselves. They saw things differently, just as you did when you produced that Jewish defence of Ish Milchama and then I asked you to look up the meaning of ha-shem. Some find it difficult to understand there are people like me who see questions everywhere. Instead, they simply accept what they have been told, seeing no reason to question their authority figures. Fortunately for me, there are many who do ask questions, their answers very often putting an entirely different light on important issues. Take, as one example, those Wise men from the East who visited the young Jesus. Why, exactly, did they do that? What did they see in the sky which, as we know, no one in Jerusalem, including Herod's staff astrologers, saw? Did the wealth they gave Jesus' parents have anything to do with them going to Egypt? And why Egypt? Given Egypt was under Roman domination, just as Babylon was, why couldn't Herod simply send his troops to Egypt and eliminate this grave political threat? Just as some firmly believe the Sanhedrin was able to send its hitmen to eliminate followers of Jesus in "Damascus". Soon after the visit by the Magi, an angel appeared to Joseph in a dream telling him to flee to Egypt with Mary and the infant Jesus since King Herod would seek the child to kill him. An angel? Or instructions from the Magi? Was it really because Herod would kill Jesus, or was there a deeper, more political, reason for their going to Egypt? Some seem puzzled by my insistence that religion and politics can not be separated. You do see Churchianity, however I do wonder just how close you see that relationship. I was brought up in a different culture, take an interest in different things. Synchronicitously, SBS is running the BBC's Elizabeth 1's Secret Agents. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09c6q1w Having been brought up celebrating Guy Fawkes Day, I knew a little about the background. Remember, remember, the 5th of November, the Gunpowder treason, and plot. However, the exact involvement of Catholicism and Henry Tudor's Protestantism, especially the father and son team William and Robert Cecil, was fascinating to learn. Theirs was the first fully professional spy network, undercover agents infiltrating Catholic strongholds, highly efficient communication systems for the time, code-breakers, the lot. The BBC's scriptwriters clearly saw no separation of Church and State, religion and politics. When all went well for the Catholic freedom fighters/traitors they saw this as proof that God was on their side. Catholic Spain also played a huge role in this essentially British politico-religious machinations. Had done at the very least from the time the Roman Pope, faced with not just the family conflict between the English and Spanish Crowns, but with the Reformation and then Henry VIII's breakaway from Rome. It was, in fact, James VI who, despite English protests, created Great Britain. How much of the Bible that believers see as God-given truth is in fact clearly nothing more than political propaganda? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead ...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here | |||
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Enthusiast... |
Originally posted by That JR Thang: Once again, you are asking me to answer for something I do not believe! So let me be clear: I do NOT believe that we are born flawed. [/QUOTE] I've no idea why you have to keep repeating this. I know, and have acknowledged repeatedly that I accept what you tell me. Perhaps you somehow confused my Eurocentric Judaeo-Christianised culture with your Churchianity? I did, however, make sure I included "especially when we see so many, whether believers or not, who insist all humans are born flawed.
Why do you say that? I'm not in the least bit interested in what people pay to their churches. Indeed, it is none of my business. Instead, I am interested in the tax money the politicians fleece from their plebeian public. That, along with events such as our latest Prime Minister, an Evangelical Christian, who has caused a ruckus by saying Australia should consider transferring its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in support of the Zionist claim that Jerusalem is their capital, despite the fact that the status of Jerusalem is disputed in both international law and diplomatic practice, with both the Israelis and Palestinians claiming Jerusalem as their capital city. Are you not aware of the connection between the powers that be and the standard of education they provide? This is an issue I have been researching for much of my life. You surely must have seen my references to the popular conception of Conspiracy Theory and the actual fact that few of our young people are provided with the education they need and deserve?
So, experiencing exactly the same thing I am experiencing you persisted, just as I do. What, then, is the difference between us? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead ...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here | |||
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Enthusiast... |
Reed, before I forget again for the umpteenth-plus time, you may be interested in seeing if you can access our SBS. Copyright may make it impossible. You may remember my mentioning their program on The Ghan, the train which takes the long haul from Adelaide in the deep south to Darwin in the far north-west. SBS makes no bones about its reception, saying some viewers reckon it deserved the highest TV award, while others insist it was a far better soporific than any prescription sleeping pill. They even dubbed the new series Slow Summer. I've watched a couple, one a sea voyage to Darwin (Kimberley Cruise), the next an 87-mile canal trip, Kennet and Avon Canal. Hard to believe, but not one word was spoken during the entire two hours, the only sound the slapping of the water on the barge bow, with intermittent bird cries and the very occasional barking of dogs as people strolled along the bridle path. No idea how slow the barge was moving in actual mph, but cyclists travelling in the same direction easily left it behind. It does, however, flash up little screeds recording the history dating back to 1723. Wouldn't have thought it was my cup of tea but, helped after the first hour by my ASC, I'm glad I did watch it. Given the dreadful things humans are doing to humans in this world, for two hours this was an experience of absolute peace and utter tranquillity. Given your interest in travel... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead ...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here | |||
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