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The Mob's Pub & Coffee Shop Part III
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
You can actually buy both here. I like the tuits that are potholders, at least they have a function!


Any tuit will do for me as I have many things I need to get around to.

Including going shopping right now for my night's beer and the prescriptions I forgot to pick up last time.

Having fun with a pharmacist and a couple of other staff as I keep telling them this Theseus needs an Ariadne thread to get him back to the pharmacy as I usually shop elsewhere then forget and return home.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don’t listen to the person who has the answers;
listen to the person who has the questions.
Albert Einstein
 
Posts: 4453 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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Originally posted by Allan:
On another thread Reed posted: "You really can’t carry on a conversation can you? Are you afraid someone might say something that changed your mind?"

Can we can sort out why some people are terrified of having their perceptions corrected while others are equally terrified of being publicly wrong and keep searching till they get it right?


I can understand, perhaps not wanting to be publically wrong. I think being afraid to explores new ideas comes from having had something come unraveled before and/ or not being able to explain how you reached your particular position. We often forget all the steps we took to get where we are. I think the posse worked hard at their rote answers because they were afraid of their belief that the Bible was inerrant and if not worthless. That’s scared for sure!

In the public political realm things are more fluid. But there are still those that learn conclusions that they haven’t made themselves. Our current environment where scare tactics of communism, socialism, nazisnm, and a host of others trigger old fears that may not be easily unearthed.

I remember being taught what communism was, what Engel et al had said, but not much about Stalin. The course was required to graduate from high school. The first thing that happen was the single person they had tele teaching was arrested because the theory isn’t scary at all, the implementation was, or so it seemed.

I remember walking several miles to a train station not knowing if we were on a drill or were being sent way from the area without our parents. I don’t remember being afraid my parents wouldn’t find me just that we might be leaving and that bombs and nuclear fallout was next.

The other dog whistle is the traces of racism. I wish that had never reared it’s ugly head again, but then in order to kill it it has to come out of the dark.
 
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Can we can sort out why some people are terrified of having their perceptions corrected while others are equally terrified of being publicly wrong and keep searching till they get it right?

For most of us, being publicly wrong usually means public correction, along with anything from a dash to a boatload of ridicule. And so we research our subject until we can form, and then substantiate, our position.

Others are either so indoctrinated, or self-determined in their position for whatever reason, that no matter how wrong they are, they will never be corrected, publicly or privately. As far as they are concerned, you are wrong simply because you disagree with them. I've found few who can actually substantiate their position. And the few who did, deliberately limited the information on which they formed their position. Any further information is just noise to them.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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I believe all beliefs are made with incomplete information otherwise your granny is full of splinters!

I wasn’t around when you decided to abandon some of your beliefs, but I believe you know better than mosthow hard that is. For me, when my beliefs were challenged by fundamentalism, they almost got a new atheist! Perhaps that’s why I believe Alan has a part that is still searching. Picking up the pieces meant that I had to trust some that couldn’t explain everything at once. I never went back to see if all the dots were together, but I periodically find large spaces that I no longer know how I got there.
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I believe all beliefs are made with incomplete information otherwise your granny is full of splinters!

Actually, I hadn't formed a "full set" of religious beliefs before we met on Amazon, and still cannot say that my beliefs are carved in stone. What I have done is debate and eliminate much that is based on "theology" or "doctrine" rather than historical understanding.

quote:
I wasn’t around when you decided to abandon some of your beliefs, but I believe you know better than mosthow hard that is. For me, when my beliefs were challenged by fundamentalism, they almost got a new atheist!

The one thing that can change my mind, and in fairly short order, is new information and/or experience. I can be as stubborn as anyone, but those 2 things get through loud and clear.

quote:
I never went back to see if all the dots were together, but I periodically find large spaces that I no longer know how I got there.

Guess I'm different in that aspect. I have to have a clear understanding of how I came to my understanding - whether it be religion or politics.

With politics, it was much simpler for me. When I became a Christian, or rather when I understood the real foundation of Christianity, and what it was actually teaching, I became a Democrat. Before that, it was all about me and mine - and so I was a Republican.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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I think I know how I got where I am now, but there are still some old beliefs that I haven’t fleshed out.

I agree more info is normally good, but the checking to see what comes apart can be time consuming.

I don auite know why I came to believe that the divinity of zjedus was after the reserection, I did learn there were two schools of thought about that and actually hadn’t realized how much I had been taught pretty much forces the divinity afterwards! For example, being tested in the wilderness makes no sense any other way!

It’s those types of connects, that are fairly minor to my current beliefs but are needed to talk to others!
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I think I know how I got where I am now, but there are still some old beliefs that I haven’t fleshed out.

My understanding from the beginning of my journey was that my faith was to be in God, not my beliefs. And what I found almost immediately was that most Christians place their faith in their beliefs, ie, doctrines and theology (like the posse). But then, I didn't come to Christianity until I was in my 50s, having rejected my churchianity upbringing when I left home (although what I thought I was rejecting was Christianity at the time since I didn't know the difference between the two).

quote:
I agree more info is normally good, but the checking to see what comes apart can be time consuming.

I don auite know why I came to believe that the divinity of zjedus was after the reserection, I did learn there were two schools of thought about that and actually hadn’t realized how much I had been taught pretty much forces the divinity afterwards! For example, being tested in the wilderness makes no sense any other way!

I was fortunate that I had read the Bible through 3 times, and had even started gathering some study materials, ie, biblical dictionaries, study guides, collections of sermons, and such. Didn't take long to realize that there were differing interpretations of the Bible.

But it wasn't until I came to the Christianity Forum on Amazon that I came face-to-face with 'theology' and its divisiveness. At that point I bought the pre-Nicene Writings of the Early Church Fathers and found that all that theological stuff was just nonsense born of someone's 'novel ideas' when they had become bored with the simplicity of Christianity. Then went to the internet to get some idea of the differing theologies and doctrines. Most of them seemed to fracture the plain meaning of what I had been reading straight from the Bible, so I gave them little credence. Still don't.

quote:
It’s those types of connects, that are fairly minor to my current beliefs but are needed to talk to others!
I rarely get into religion discussions anymore. Most of my family and friends have learned that if/when they attempt to push their doctrines, dogmas, theologies onto me, I tie them in knots with facts and questions that they have difficulty untying themselves from. So they've learned to leave me alone. Smile-Big   :D


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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I rarely get into religion discussions anymore. Most of my family and friends have learned that if/when they attempt to push their doctrines, dogmas, theologies onto me, I tie them in knots with facts and questions that they have difficulty untying themselves from. So they've learned to leave me alone.


That sounds like Allan sort of!

It was theology that got me out of doctrine messes, but then doctrine wasn’t all that heavy as I grew up. Too many different teachers o get one only way.

Having said that the theology I found strength in was a way that looked at God in what I want call abstract. It isn’t totally, but it keeps the concept of never fully defining the infinite clean. This theology talked about a God from within, that was your core, what made you tick. Not as a creator but as a living experience so to speak. The concept of seeing the Christ was explained in a seminar as that which shows you who you are. His example was of a child that broke something glass and as he rushed to be sure the child was unharmed he saw the fear of being in trouble. He was brought to ask himself what have I taught this child that causes such deep reaction. He talked in more general terms about the idea of falling over saw an ottoman being similar. Not God didn’t zap it into the way, but when it causes you to slowdown and think about what you are doing and what you aren’t paying attention too and you carry that deeper, you have “seen the light” so to speak.

This is easier to explain in person, a bit.
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
That sounds like Allan sort of!

Learned that lesson well Wink   ;)

quote:
Having said that the theology I found strength in was a way that looked at God in what I want call abstract. It isn’t totally, but it keeps the concept of never fully defining the infinite clean.

What I learned from simply contemplating God is that the finite cannot fully comprehend nor define the infinite. I'm always turned off by those who attempt to tell me they "know God". That simply tells me that their god is made in their own image.

I've attempted to explain how I understand God, but it is always with the understanding that any of our understandings will fall short.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
That sounds like Allan sort of!

Learned that lesson well Wink   ;)

quote:
Having said that the theology I found strength in was a way that looked at God in what I want call abstract. It isn’t totally, but it keeps the concept of never fully defining the infinite clean.

What I learned from simply contemplating God is that the finite cannot fully comprehend nor define the infinite. I'm always turned off by those who attempt to tell me they "know God". That simply tells me that their god is made in their own image.

I've attempted to explain how I understand God, but it is always with the understanding that any of our understandings will fall short.


I hear that!

As for the book your God’s too Small and those with similar titles, I agree!

The God is Dead movement had a valid point!
 
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Was going to apologise for my delay, ladies, but in fact you both have added much which has been of great help.

You are right in one way, Reed, in that my search is ongoing.

One thing hasn't changed, adding to my frustrations.

It really is perfectly simple. It is just that I need to sit down with that missing Boswellian amanuensis and sort it out.

Sooner you get your teeth into full working order, JR, sooner we can get stuck into it like a prime piece of steak, with Reed sitting in the umpire's chair keeping us on track.

A young niece came around the other day to see if any of my books might be of interest. Sorting them into some sort of order, I came across Robert Graves' novel King Jesus and am now part of the way back into it. I had started rereading Barbara Thiering's Jesus of the Apocalypse and the combination is mind-blowing.

No doubt at all that Graves has had enormous impact on me.

Adding Thiering's politics to Graves' mythology, I can see why, for me, religion and politics are hand-in-glove subsets of mythology.

Describing the simplicity will take a couple of paragraphs.

Explaining and justifying the simplicity will take a couple of volumes.

Problem is, if I ever did write this book I'd no doubt be pilloried from R-sole to breakfast time.

Our hunter-gatherer forebears were just as intelligent as we like to think we are, so it would have been easy for them to answer the insistent questions of where lightning and thunder, floods, drought, earthquakes, and so on, came from.

Looking around they'd see everything they had and used, tools, weapons, dilly bags, whatever clothing and shelter they made, all their food, came to them from human "agents". Not at all hard using reason to hypothesise that the unexplainable came from super-human "agents".

Seems to be a universal acceptance that at some stage, maybe around 50,000 years ago, we experienced a radical difference in the way we perceive life. The Franco-Spanish caves provide on argument.

For me, as you'd expect, some, at least, of this came from the entheogens used by the shamans. No question at all that they "saw" entities when under the influence.

We all do it. Especially in an ASC.

How often have we looked at clouds, for example, and "seen" real-life shapes there. See a face in a crowd and think we know them until we get close?

Our brains do that all the time. When they can't positively recognise something they their damndest to make it fit what they do know.

Simple to see our shamans' brains under entheogens making a blur look, for example, as a bull's head. The body does not fit, but can be made to seem to be a human body.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/...inotaur_by_Barye.jpg

Would not be difficult for a sharp-nosed shaman to convince all the Betas and Gammas that he not only can see those images, he can converse with them.

One thing they told him, of course, was how they wanted to see ordinary humans behave if they want the super-human agents to look after them.

Do what the shaman says the "agents" told him and all will be well. Disobey him and the super-human agents will condemn them. Honour thy deity with all your love or suffer the price with an eternity of torture or torment.

That, for me, anyway, is where all our deities and religions came from.

Alphas make up the stories. Many Betas and all Gammas believe them literally, a great way of controlling the serfs.

When we look at the posters we have seen over the years we easily can see how many Betas and all Gammas are not only unable to think for themselves; they can't afford to question what their authority-figures tell them or they will be condemned to Limbo. Well under the bar Smile-Big   :D

Wasn't thinking, of course, of this limbo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyHSJj_DluI


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don’t listen to the person who has the answers;
listen to the person who has the questions.
Albert Einstein
 
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I'll be gettin' back to y'all once my back allows.

Spent the day pointin' and gruntin' to my sis and bro who came to help with spring cleanin'. Sis and I went through the closets for give-a-ways and bro did the shrubbery and vine management.

Who knew pointin' and gruntin' could be so hard on the back? But I guess the way I do it, you know, taking down armloads of clothing on hangers, and holding them until sis can arrange them on her arm, is a bit more than my back will allow for. At least I didn't try to hold the hedge trimmers and weed spray while bro took care of that project Smile-Big   :D

Sheesh! I envy limbo girl !!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I'll be gettin' back to y'all once my back allows.

Spent the day pointin' and gruntin' to my sis and bro who came to help with spring cleanin'. Sis and I went through the closets for give-a-ways and bro did the shrubbery and vine management.

Who knew pointin' and gruntin' could be so hard on the back? But I guess the way I do it, you know, taking down armloads of clothing on hangers, and holding them until sis can arrange them on her arm, is a bit more than my back will allow for. At least I didn't try to hold the hedge trimmers and weed spray while bro took care of that project Smile-Big   :D

Sheesh! I envy limbo girl !!!


I hear you! I can’t do a lot of what I once could. I’m trying to find a diet that is easy enough to do while eating out when shopping etc. of course I get lazy and just use frozen chimichangas, but their calorie count isn’t that high! Something has to give soon!
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I hear you! I can’t do a lot of what I once could. I’m trying to find a diet that is easy enough to do while eating out when shopping etc. of course I get lazy and just use frozen chimichangas, but their calorie count isn’t that high! Something has to give soon!

Hmmm, why not skip the deep fat frying and eat a burrito instead? Or maybe a baked one?

baked chimichangas


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I hear you! I can’t do a lot of what I once could. I’m trying to find a diet that is easy enough to do while eating out when shopping etc. of course I get lazy and just use frozen chimichangas, but their calorie count isn’t that high! Something has to give soon!

Hmmm, why not skip the deep fat frying and eat a burrito instead? Or maybe a baked one?

baked chimichangas


They are frozen, look more like burritos and microwaveable!

Our kfc isn’t great but I wish they still had the baked chicken.
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
They are frozen, look more like burritos and microwaveable!

Good! With summer coming on, it should be a bit easier.

I naturally tend toward light eating in summer months. And my tummy doesn't like much in the way of fats anyway. The easiest for me is to eat fruit and cottage cheese for lunch. My fav is cantaloupe with cottage cheese and a sprinkle of salt and white pepper.

Have also started making smoothies for lunch as well. Easiest I've found is frozen berries, bit of low-fat yogurt, and splash of pomegranate juice. I also freeze some in popsicle molds for snacks.
Small Pop Mold

Standard Pop Mold

Made some really fabulous ones last summer from blended watermelon and mixed frozen berries (no yogurt). Dang! those things were good! Made them in the small molds for a mid-afternoon pick-me-up. Just bought a jug of pomegranate-cherry juice and a bag of frozen cherries to make some for this week since it's supposed to get to the mid 80s here.

Of course, you can always get all your teeth pulled and that will force you to find plenty of foods that do well for weight loss Smile   :) Tuna salad, chicken salad, or grilled cheese sandwich with tomato, chicken, turkey soup... Hey, it worked for me and I wasn't even trying!

And NEVER drink diet drinks. N E V E R. Switch to flavored water or unsweetened tea. This is my fav tea:
Bengal Spice Tea
You can also brew a cup to pour into a half gallon of regular tea. Tastes good iced as well.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
They are frozen, look more like burritos and microwaveable!

Good! With summer coming on, it should be a bit easier.

I naturally tend toward light eating in summer months. And my tummy doesn't like much in the way of fats anyway. The easiest for me is to eat fruit and cottage cheese for lunch. My fav is cantaloupe with cottage cheese and a sprinkle of salt and white pepper.

Have also started making smoothies for lunch as well. Easiest I've found is frozen berries, bit of low-fat yogurt, and splash of pomegranate juice. I also freeze some in popsicle molds for snacks.
Small Pop Mold

Standard Pop Mold

Made some really fabulous ones last summer from blended watermelon and mixed frozen berries (no yogurt). Dang! those things were good! Made them in the small molds for a mid-afternoon pick-me-up. Just bought a jug of pomegranate-cherry juice and a bag of frozen cherries to make some for this week since it's supposed to get to the mid 80s here.

Of course, you can always get all your teeth pulled and that will force you to find plenty of foods that do well for weight loss Smile   :) Tuna salad, chicken salad, or grilled cheese sandwich with tomato, chicken, turkey soup... Hey, it worked for me and I wasn't even trying!

And NEVER drink diet drinks. N E V E R. Switch to flavored water or unsweetened tea. This is my fav tea:
Bengal Spice Tea
You can also brew a cup to pour into a half gallon of regular tea. Tastes good iced as well.


Getting rid of diet drinks has been the hardest things, but is the top of my list. I finally got rid of the caffeine but since I’ve eaten saccharin all my life, it hard to get rid of it entirely. Oatmeal comes to mind but raisins have helped me reduce the amount. I love cantaloupe but it no longer likes me, not after the gallbladder surgery.

I need to move more, because even reduced calories had me plateauing early. We’re talking 1000-1200!
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
I need to move more, because even reduced calories had me plateauing early. We’re talking 1000-1200!

I've rarely ever dieted. And rarely ever needed to. Seems my IBS kinda keeps me within bounds since it limits how much I can eat, as well as what I can eat. A full stomach is a big no-no. As is anything with high fat content. And then there's insoluble fiber and artificial sweeteners. I cannot digest them, so they are out.

The best advice I ever got was to NEVER fill your stomach. I started slow, and cut back a couple of tablespoons per meal. After a few days to a week, cut back again until you are eating about 3/4 of what you would normally eat. Don't put it on your plate and don't go back for seconds.

Your stomach will shrink to the new amount of food. At that point, you can cut back again IF you need to. If not, just maintain. You will become very accustomed to not having a full stomach - to the point that it will be uncomfortable if you overeat.

Of course, I also had the incentive of reduction of IBS symptoms to keep me on track, because if I overeat, it sets my symptoms off big time.

And keep something to drink on hand at all times. I recently started drinking Bubly and even my bro and sis liked them and they drink sweetened tea most of the time! These are not sweetened at all.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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I started drinking seltzer we can get 2L for less than $1 and the lime is excellent.

As for eating too much, too fast seems to also be a problem now, and that’s new.
 
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Sooner you get your teeth into full working order, JR, sooner we can get stuck into it like a prime piece of steak, with Reed sitting in the umpire's chair keeping us on track.

Oh my...

I now have a split lip (little accident), and some bone fragments protruding through my upper gums. Oh fun, Oh joy!

But I cannot go back to the dentist until my lip heals because we don't want it to continue to split. So I'm thinking I will have the fragments removed at the same time I get the bottom teeth pulled? We'll see, but that is what *I* want to do.

When I can actually eat a NY Strip Steak, you and I will have a go.

Umpire? WTF? You get started writing that bloody book of yours and I correct it as necessary. How's that? Smile-Big   :D


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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