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The Mob's Pub & Coffee Shop Part III
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Picture of Allan
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quote:
Originally posted by Henry J:
In the end quote tag, the slash goes before the word "quote".

Onya, mate. Good job someone is on the ball.

But then, I have been doing this only for just less than three years, haven't I. Bang Head   :banghead:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1849 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
When one takes in the considerable writings over the centuries, it appears that the *El Elyon, who is also called Elohim when the sons are included when speaking of the godhead. YHWH is but one of the Elohim (sons) of El Elyon (God), begotten via Wisdom/Sophia (the Mother). It may be that Elohim also includes the Mother...The Goddess.

But it seems to be quite a difficult task to make any hard and fast determinations since there is such diverse, and yet noncohesive and disparate, writings on the subject.

Interesting, to say the least. I just don't have the time nor the financial and mental wherewithal atm to did any deeper. Not to mention, there have been numerous better minds than mine who have been at it for quite some time.

Allan,

I shouldn't even attempt this, since I was just about to go to sleep when I read your post. So I probably won't be able to give you an adequate response tonight, maybe not even a coherent one. But I wanted everyone to know I'm back on Aantares, and the best way to do that is to post on this topic. I posted on a couple of other topics earlier (in the "Wild-Eyed and Crazy" section) and one brief post at the end of a long topic in the R&S forum. So far nobody has noticed, but maybe they will tomorrow.

Briefly: You are basically right in your understanding of the relationship between El Elyon (God Most High, or God the Father), YHVH, and Chokmah/Sophia, but to understand WHY you are right you have to read a different set of sources, for the most part, from the ones you are familiar with. And those sources were almost nonexistent until about 20 years ago.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. --P.C. Hodgell
 
Posts: 18669 | Location: So. Calif., USA | Mbr Since: 03-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Raksha:
quote:
When one takes in the considerable writings over the centuries, it appears that the *El Elyon, who is also called Elohim when the sons are included when speaking of the godhead. YHWH is but one of the Elohim (sons) of El Elyon (God), begotten via Wisdom/Sophia (the Mother). It may be that Elohim also includes the Mother...The Goddess.

But it seems to be quite a difficult task to make any hard and fast determinations since there is such diverse, and yet noncohesive and disparate, writings on the subject.

Interesting, to say the least. I just don't have the time nor the financial and mental wherewithal atm to did any deeper. Not to mention, there have been numerous better minds than mine who have been at it for quite some time.

Allan,

I shouldn't even attempt this, since I was just about to go to sleep when I read your post. So I probably won't be able to give you an adequate response tonight, maybe not even a coherent one. But I wanted everyone to know I'm back on Aantares, and the best way to do that is to post on this topic. I posted on a couple of other topics earlier (in the "Wild-Eyed and Crazy" section) and one brief post at the end of a long topic in the R&S forum. So far nobody has noticed, but maybe they will tomorrow.

Briefly: You are basically right in your understanding of the relationship between El Elyon (God Most High, or God the Father), YHVH, and Chokmah/Sophia, but to understand WHY you are right you have to read a different set of sources, for the most part, from the ones you are familiar with. And those sources were almost nonexistent until about 20 years ago.


I just read them all before finding this one.

Welcome back. As for Bryan I’m hoping he can come back here!
 
Posts: 6530 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey Linda!!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 5223 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just got a text from Steve. He is alright...but there is lots of dangerous flooding just NE of where he is due to TS Amelda.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 5223 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Raksha:
Allan, I shouldn't even attempt this, since I was just about to go to sleep when I read your post. So I probably won't be able to give you an adequate response tonight, maybe not even a coherent one. But I wanted everyone to know I'm back on Aantares, and the best way to do that is to post on this topic. I posted on a couple of other topics earlier (in the "Wild-Eyed and Crazy" section) and one brief post at the end of a long topic in the R&S forum. So far nobody has noticed, but maybe they will tomorrow.
Briefly: You are basically right in your understanding of the relationship between El Elyon (God Most High, or God the Father), YHVH, and Chokmah/Sophia, but to understand WHY you are right you have to read a different set of sources, for the most part, from the ones you are familiar with. And those sources were almost nonexistent until about 20 years ago.

Great to have you back.

By the time you have caught up on your sleep you will have realised you are addressing JR's post, not mine.

While I owe JR for her introduction of Margaret Barker, I'm coming from a different angle.

Because science, logic, and reason have no argument either way, I have to remain an agnostic when it comes to a creator deity.

I'm with Francis Crick and Sir Fred Hoyle (an even more amazing bloke than I had realised*) in that our DNA seems far too complicated to have originated here 3.8 billion or so years ago, so panspermia is a possibility. Remember being frustrated because the conventional orthodox scientific minds used to resign themselves to the thought that we know and understand some 5% of our DNA and the rest must therefore be junk. Was relieved to see that has now changed. Seems to me that our DNA is conceivably designed to cope with any environment (cf our environment with the plasma plumes in the depths of the oceans which are surrounded by life forms).

Because of this, I accept the option that life may have begun elsewhere and migrated one way or another to arrive here from the original home solar system. Think it was Crick's LSD-sponsored findings on the complexity of our DNA which resonated with my own Altered State of Consciousness (ASC) which allows me to accept the possibility we are all one.

I also tend to side with Carl Jung's archetypes, as this fits with my own perception that much if not all of who and what we are comes down to being genetically programmed. It may not be relevant to Jung's 12 archetypes, however I add the concept of the follower as I think they make up the majority of we Great Apes. Theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do or die, according to whether they follow the fighter or the mediator.
https://exploringyourmind.com/...-jungian-archetypes/

* Well worth the read:
https://www.physicsoftheuniver...cientists_hoyle.html


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1849 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Reed:
quote:
I just read them all before finding this one.

Welcome back. As for Bryan I’m hoping he can come back here!

Good to see you again, Reed!

Bryan will be back if I kick his butt often enough by email, and if thinks something is happening here he wants to be involved in. I'm trying to get him to come back to Facebook too--so I can find our private topic if nothing else. He got put in Facebook jail (amounts to a 30-day suspension) for a really ****** reason, got mad about it and de-activated his FB page.

Bryan knows who his friends are, and I know he keeps in touch with you guys by email. But I'd like him to participate in the discussions too. He's involved in a number of discussion forums I haven't even looked at, and that's probably why he says he doesn't miss Facebook. He can always find someone to argue with somewhere!

--Linda

P.S. Why has the word "st*pid" (can't spell it out) become a naughty word on Aantares? It doesn't get bleeped out elsewhere. That's the second time this has happened to me in two days.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. --P.C. Hodgell
 
Posts: 18669 | Location: So. Calif., USA | Mbr Since: 03-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Just got a text from Steve. He is alright...but there is lots of dangerous flooding just NE of where he is due to TS Amelda.

Hey JR!!!
I know Steve lives in Texas, but I'm not sure where in Texas exactly. It sounds like he isn't far from the Gulf. I had a quick glance at the weather page earlier, and the southeast is really getting pounded by hurricanes. It's always bad this time of year, but it seems like this year is a lot worse.

I have a friend who used to live in the Outer Banks, on Emerald Isle off the coast of North Carolina, who now lives in Florida, although I'm not sure exactly where. He used to think it was a great challenge to weather the hurricanes that were a regular feature of life there. Wouldn't evacuate until the last possible minute, if at all.

Like the rest of us, he's getting too old for that kind of thing now, so he moved permanently to his other home in Florida. Not that Florida is being spared from what I've heard.

--Linda


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. --P.C. Hodgell
 
Posts: 18669 | Location: So. Calif., USA | Mbr Since: 03-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
But 'splain to me exactly how you see the mediators as lagging so far behind, because it seems to me that they are the ones who are trying to push toward global/universal socialism in order to include everyone in all the processes.


The trick is finding a way in which they can get together with the fighters and resolve their differences in a neutral way. I feel for those Trump supporters who, for me, are incapable of sensible discussion, incapable of seeing there are genuinely peaceful ways of solving their fears. How can the centrist mediators effectively communicate with such as these?

Incapable of sensible discussion because they are incapable of sensible thought. Not to mention that they are surface feeders, as you so eloquently put it.

I feel for them too, Allan, but there are days on end when I simply cannot reach them Smile   :) There are days when I just want to jerk them up by the lapels, spit on 'em, and slap 'em until they are dry!

Think maybe I've reached the end of my patience with 'em?

quote:
Perhaps I need to clarify something I said: being genetically programmed to fight, which I said was the warrior gene, is not the same as the actual Warrior Gene.
https://geneticliteracyproject...t-should-society-do/

This Warrior Gene is a defect, as opposed to those genuinely programmed to see fighting as the solution, as with the sabre-tooth cat.

What I'm after is communication between the two normal types. If I genuinely see fighting as the only solution to our problems and you see negotiating as the solution, other than getting together over a Guinness and a Baileys, how can we unite on this? It's like the post-Luther Reformation; Catholics and Protestants chatting amicably together to resolve their differences? Yeah, right.

I heard that!

quote:
What we need is a 21st century Enlightenment.

You may remember some time back I said I saw two separate news programs on different blokes I at first dismissed as unthinking rednecks only to find in later programs that both blokes were genuinely frightened of the Muslim kufrs?

How can we address that fact?

People naturally are cautious/fearful of what they do not understand/know. All it usually takes is a effort to gain understanding/knowledge. Seems to me that they actually much prefer to fear than learn.

quote:
JR: 'Cause if we aren't looking and working towards that end, what the hell was the point of evolution?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfkBV80npY8

Since we are indeed here, why not make the best of it?

YEP!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 5223 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Raksha:
Hey JR!!!
I know Steve lives in Texas, but I'm not sure where in Texas exactly. It sounds like he isn't far from the Gulf.
--Linda

Don't know the actual address, but it is Houston, TX.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 5223 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Incapable of sensible discussion because they are incapable of sensible thought. Not to mention that they are surface feeders, as you so eloquently put it.
I feel for them too, Allan, but there are days on end when I simply cannot reach them Smile   :) There are days when I just want to jerk them up by the lapels, spit on 'em, and slap 'em until they are dry!
Think maybe I've reached the end of my patience with 'em?

That is why I keep harping on NLP to find a way to communicate with the lost.

As you know, one of the lines I used in football training was telling my players they were not permitted to say they could not do a new skill I introduced. Instead, they had to say they could not do it yet. A young boy took the p*ss out of me, playing a little word game which showed he did indeed understand. One mother told me her son carried that over to his classmates, so it did have an impact on him as well. Had a pair of 8yo step-brothers who moved from another club. One was a delight, self-confident, happy, sure of himself. The other was a miserable mess, thanks to his mother who even breached a Court Order to remove him 1000 miles or so away from his new family until the Court ordered his return. When he came to me he was a worry, look at him sideways and he'd burst into tears, while on the field the slightest knock sidelined him from the match. By the time I was finished he was an active fully involved player and, when I put him in goal, he was diving at the feet of attackers, shrugging off any kicks they inflicted. Met him again as he entered his teens, and he was tall, held himself well, was happy, full of self-confidence.

It is all in the environment.

Many parents would insist that I coach younger siblings as my players moved to higher age groups. They said my techniques boosted their children's self-confidence, including in their schoolwork and relations with others.

Remember telling you of a college student both I and a maths volunteer agreed was smarter than the lad thought he was. His teachers had written him off. Chris used his own maths techniques, I used NLP. He passed that semester, moved on to a higher grade, and when I last saw him was firmly placed in a part-time job which was helping pay his way through the higher grades.

Too easy.

quote:
People naturally are cautious/fearful of what they do not understand/know. All it usually takes is a effort to gain understanding/knowledge. Seems to me that they actually much prefer to fear than learn.


Or is it this?

The orphan archetype walks around with open wounds. They feel betrayed and disappointed. They want other people to take charge of their life. When no one does, they feel disappointed. They tend to spend time with people who feel just like them. The orphan often plays the victim. They pretend to be innocent. The orphan has a cynical side and manipulative talent.
https://exploringyourmind.com/...-jungian-archetypes/

Trump will just love that.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1849 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
That is why I keep harping on NLP to find a way to communicate with the lost.

As you know, one of the lines I used in football training was telling my players they were not permitted to say they could not do a new skill I introduced. Instead, they had to say they could not do it yet. A young boy took the p*ss out of me, playing a little word game which showed he did indeed understand. One mother told me her son carried that over to his classmates, so it did have an impact on him as well. Had a pair of 8yo step-brothers who moved from another club. One was a delight, self-confident, happy, sure of himself. The other was a miserable mess, thanks to his mother who even breached a Court Order to remove him 1000 miles or so away from his new family until the Court ordered his return. When he came to me he was a worry, look at him sideways and he'd burst into tears, while on the field the slightest knock sidelined him from the match. By the time I was finished he was an active fully involved player and, when I put him in goal, he was diving at the feet of attackers, shrugging off any kicks they inflicted. Met him again as he entered his teens, and he was tall, held himself well, was happy, full of self-confidence.

It is all in the environment.

Many parents would insist that I coach younger siblings as my players moved to higher age groups. They said my techniques boosted their children's self-confidence, including in their schoolwork and relations with others.

Remember telling you of a college student both I and a maths volunteer agreed was smarter than the lad thought he was. His teachers had written him off. Chris used his own maths techniques, I used NLP. He passed that semester, moved on to a higher grade, and when I last saw him was firmly placed in a part-time job which was helping pay his way through the higher grades.

Too easy.

You make a very capable daddy. Everyone should have at least one of you.

I applaud you.

quote:
Or is it this?

The orphan archetype walks around with open wounds. They feel betrayed and disappointed. They want other people to take charge of their life. When no one does, they feel disappointed. They tend to spend time with people who feel just like them. The orphan often plays the victim. They pretend to be innocent. The orphan has a cynical side and manipulative talent.
https://exploringyourmind.com/...-jungian-archetypes/

Ya know, most of us feel betrayed and disappointed off and on during our lifetime. It's part of growing up. It's also part of our adulthood if we ever allow ourselves to love and set any level of expectation of ourselves and others.

My attitude is if they can bother themselves to pretend innocence and play the victim in order to manipulate, then they bloody well have the wherewithal get the hell over it and focus their efforts toward gaining knowledge and understanding.

Seems to me that would be considerably more gratifying and productive than the cesspool they've chosen. They seem irresponsible to me.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 5223 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
You make a very capable daddy. Everyone should have at least one of you.
I applaud you.

Well, I did suggest when at my peak I should have been put out to stud.

Could not find anyone who shared my conviction.

quote:

Ya know, most of us feel betrayed and disappointed off and on during our lifetime. It's part of growing up. It's also part of our adulthood if we ever allow ourselves to love and set any level of expectation of ourselves and others.
My attitude is if they can bother themselves to pretend innocence and play the victim in order to manipulate, then they bloody well have the wherewithal get the hell over it and focus their efforts toward gaining knowledge and understanding.
Seems to me that would be considerably more gratifying and productive than the cesspool they've chosen. They seem irresponsible to me.


Go back to the beginning of the Labour Movement. No one at that time could possibly have imagined that anyone would voluntarily choose to go on the dole. Marginally before my time, however I have seen plenty from that generation who were deeply affected, disturbed, if they were forced on the dole.

Vastly different now, and I am again reminded of one of my football youngsters. Took me a while to get him going. However, he stuck to it and by the end of that first season he was one of my top players.

That year, though, his Dad went on permanent sick pay, split with his wife, moving a few doors away where they worked together selling non-recordable sales items. The wife went on a single pension, their daughter on the dole.

What chance did that lad have?

Meant to mention this last week when I was talking about the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich. Don't know if you ever saw the UK TV comedy Blackadder? His delightfully dim-witted sidekick Baldrick was played by Tony Robinson (now Sir Anthony Robinson), who has hosted several historical documentaries including the Channel 4 programmes Time Team and The Worst Jobs in History. Wikipedia

After I posted, Tony presented a documentary on the Thames, where he was born in Hackney.

Two things:

First, he visited the Arsenal, then told how the Thames and its estuary are now teeming with sea life as a result of massive clean-up efforts.

On the same night, 16yo Greta Thunberg was shown visiting the US.

On the news, too, a number of high-school principals were reported getting most upset because millions of schoolchildren here were taking days off school to protest against the lack of concern about the effect of human pollution on climate change.

Why the eff did they not support those youngsters instead? They even could introduce environmental studies as part of their curriculum.

I remember when I were a lad that I often wondered what was the point in my learning subjects such as chemistry, physics, even advanced maths including geometry, as they were not likely to have any effect on my future. Realised later that learning to study those subjects influenced my ability to learn as I grew older.

Is it any wonder I keep going back to the hunter-gatherer days when every child was brought up to play an essential part in the tribe's benefit?

We've lost the plot.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1849 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
You make a very capable daddy. Everyone should have at least one of you.
I applaud you.

Well, I did suggest when at my peak I should have been put out to stud.

Could not find anyone who shared my conviction.

You butt! Wink   ;)

quote:
Go back to the beginning of the Labour Movement. No one at that time could possibly have imagined that anyone would voluntarily choose to go on the dole. Marginally before my time, however I have seen plenty from that generation who were deeply affected, disturbed, if they were forced on the dole.

Vastly different now, and I am again reminded of one of my football youngsters. Took me a while to get him going. However, he stuck to it and by the end of that first season he was one of my top players.

That year, though, his Dad went on permanent sick pay, split with his wife, moving a few doors away where they worked together selling non-recordable sales items. The wife went on a single pension, their daughter on the dole.

What chance did that lad have?

Yeah, it becomes a lifestyle after a few generations of having grown up in that environment. Hard to break out of after a while.

It happened here too. But we finally got most of it under control. Started requiring the able-bodied to get training and go to work for their monthly checks. And there was no increase in government paid monthly amount if the household increased beyond 2 children.

We still have some (much fewer) that milk the system, but it is considerably more difficult than it once was. For most it is simply easier to just go to work and earn their keep.

quote:
Meant to mention this last week when I was talking about the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich. Don't know if you ever saw the UK TV comedy Blackadder? His delightfully dim-witted sidekick Baldrick was played by Tony Robinson (now Sir Anthony Robinson), who has hosted several historical documentaries including the Channel 4 programmes Time Team and The Worst Jobs in History. Wikipedia

After I posted, Tony presented a documentary on the Thames, where he was born in Hackney.

Two things:

First, he visited the Arsenal, then told how the Thames and its estuary are now teeming with sea life as a result of massive clean-up efforts.

On the same night, 16yo Greta Thunberg was shown visiting the US.

On the news, too, a number of high-school principals were reported getting most upset because millions of schoolchildren here were taking days off school to protest against the lack of concern about the effect of human pollution on climate change.

Why the eff did they not support those youngsters instead? They even could introduce environmental studies as part of their curriculum.

I remember when I were a lad that I often wondered what was the point in my learning subjects such as chemistry, physics, even advanced maths including geometry, as they were not likely to have any effect on my future. Realised later that learning to study those subjects influenced my ability to learn as I grew older.


No, never saw the show.

Yeah, Greta Thunberg is making a big splash here. More power to her!

quote:
Is it any wonder I keep going back to the hunter-gatherer days when every child was brought up to play an essential part in the tribe's benefit?

We've lost the plot.

Hate to be the one to break it to you, Allan, but I honestly don't think there is going to be any going back.

Family units have changed how they live and interact. Same with communities and countries. They will eventually find a new way of dealing/coping with the needs of individuals...hopefully...

I'm thinking that when automation gets a firm foothold, and adults start sharing jobs that require considerably less time spent working and earning a living, there will be more time spent on meeting the needs of the young. We'll see.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 5223 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Hate to be the one to break it to you, Allan, but I honestly don't think there is going to be any going back.

So where are they going to start to sort out how to fix our problems if not from the past?

One of my sisters and I are almost unique in that her four children and seven grandchildren, three of my four children and six of my seven grandchildren, and our brother live less than 30 minutes drive apart.

In contrast, and in common with most families, my brother's son and grandson have to travel interstate for his work, while his daughter is travelling and working overseas. Same goes for my other sister who lives with her husband hundreds of miles away, their daughter also far separated.

quote:
Family units have changed how they live and interact. Same with communities and countries. They will eventually find a new way of dealing/coping with the needs of individuals...hopefully...


Try this one:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry...ily-is-go_b_11722722
I tried to look up statistics on blended families and it became overwhelming. What it boils down to is that about 50 percent of American families are blended, meaning the adults in the family have children from previous relationships.
My family is blended. Well, my family is chopped, minced, and then blended. Even though we don't use the terms step or half, the reality is that we have step parents, step kids, step siblings, half siblings and we even have my sister who we're raising as our daughter.

I would add from my volunteer work over 15 years that many of those broken families are dysfunctional. I've worked with young women sexually molested by the fathers or their mothers' assorted boyfriends, others where parents are drug or alcohol addicts.

How can those children learn to provide any genuine culture in which to bring up their own children?

I'm obviously not making myself clear.

I'm not suggesting we recreate the hunter-gatherer culture.

What I am saying is we need to re-examine what has made cultures work in the past and learn from them.

Aldous Huxley's Brave New World is just one of many sci-fi stories which suggested solutions.

https://www.theguardian.com/bo...ssics.margaretatwood
In the latter half of the 20th century, two visionary books cast their shadows over our futures. One was George Orwell's 1949 novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, with its horrific vision of a brutal, mind-controlling totalitarian state - a book that gave us Big Brother and thoughtcrime and newspeak and the memory hole and the torture palace called the Ministry of Love and the discouraging spectacle of a boot grinding into the human face forever.
The other was Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (1932), which proposed a different and softer form of totalitarianism - one of conformity achieved through engineered, bottle-grown babies and hypnotic persuasion rather than through brutality, of boundless consumption that keeps the wheels of production turning and of officially enforced promiscuity that does away with sexual frustration, of a pre-ordained caste system ranging from a highly intelligent managerial class to a subgroup of dim-witted serfs programmed to love their menial work, and of soma, a drug that confers instant bliss with no side effects.

Despite their significant differences, both authors studied the past and took what they thought was a way out.

Where, today, do we see educated people analysing this issue and presenting effective solution?

Dear gods, we can't even provide effective education systems despite the fact I was reading Jean Piaget (1936) long before I married, Maria Montessori before I had children.

The information is all there, everything we need, yet I am buggered if I can see any effort at all being made to solve this.

Can you see anything? I'd appreciate some links.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/piaget.html

Can't c&p that, but I see one paragraph which could well be why I think along the lines of our basic mental structure being genetically programmed and on which all subsequent learning and knowledge are based.

Will need an ASC if I am to absorb that Piaget link :idea:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1849 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There was a program, last century, that taught that you could increase a child’s mental capabilities with several types of exercises. One involved walking the child up several times at night and presenting large words and some complex ideas. Part of the theory included that you brain power increased with age and that was measured in night and daylight and thus by creating artificial cycles of basically extra days and nights a child progressed faster too.
 
Posts: 6530 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Allan
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
There was a program, last century, that taught that you could increase a child’s mental capabilities with several types of exercises. One involved walking (waking?) the child up several times at night and presenting large words and some complex ideas. Part of the theory included that your brain power increased with age and that was measured in night and daylight and thus by creating artificial cycles of basically extra days and nights a child progressed faster too.

That is what I am after, Reed. Do you have a link?

Meant to post this in response to your post of your Aussie woman who is a fan of Trump. My tobacconist is quickly selling a little long-handled plastic brush with the image of Trump with the slogan Keep America Clean, with a cartoon image of Trump's head topped with orange bristles. She is far from impressed by your POTUS. If the sales are any indication, I'd say many others are laughing at him.

We chatted on, and she joined the increasing number of parents and grandparents who are telling me how concerned they are about the low standard of our education system.


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The people's flag is deepest red It shrouded oft our martyred dead
...Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here
 
Posts: 1849 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
There was a program, last century, that taught that you could increase a child’s mental capabilities with several types of exercises. One involved walking (waking?) the child up several times at night and presenting large words and some complex ideas. Part of the theory included that your brain power increased with age and that was measured in night and daylight and thus by creating artificial cycles of basically extra days and nights a child progressed faster too.

That is what I am after, Reed. Do you have a link?

Meant to post this in response to your post of your Aussie woman who is a fan of Trump. My tobacconist is quickly selling a little long-handled plastic brush with the image of Trump with the slogan Keep America Clean, with a cartoon image of Trump's head topped with orange bristles. She is far from impressed by your POTUS. If the sales are any indication, I'd say many others are laughing at him.

We chatted on, and she joined the increasing number of parents and grandparents who are telling me how concerned they are about the low standard of our education system.


Yes waking, sorry. As for a link, I don’t i think the training was in Msss. I don’t have a good contact for the father that did the training for his sons either. I’ll keep looking though.
 
Posts: 6530 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of That JR Thang
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Originally posted by Allan:
So where are they going to start to sort out how to fix our problems if not from the past?

The way I see it the problems being faced today are mostly because those old ways no longer worked for them; their reality changed too drastically and too fast for those old ways to keep up.

Dad went to war and mom went to work. Dad came home, either in a box or to a situation where there was no self-supporting jobs available. Families broke under the strain. Then communication/TV/computers/travel and automation took off like a rocket. Everybody was scrambling to find their place and function. It was messy, and some never quite recovered from it.

I'm thinking that at some point someone or some group will work out a way - looking forward - and will devise a way bring in a bit of cohesiveness to it all. But I don't think it will look very much like it did in the past.

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One of my sisters and I are almost unique in that her four children and seven grandchildren, three of my four children and six of my seven grandchildren, and our brother live less than 30 minutes drive apart.

In contrast, and in common with most families, my brother's son and grandson have to travel interstate for his work, while his daughter is travelling and working overseas. Same goes for my other sister who lives with her husband hundreds of miles away, their daughter also far separated.


I know of few families who remain within reasonable driving distance of each other. At least some portion of the family lives quite a distance away.

My extended family are strung from coast to coast, but most live in the Southeast. Of we 9 siblings, only 3 have children. Have pictures, but have never met any of my grand-nieces and nephews, 2 of whom live on the West coast.

I have 1 sister who lives within an hour drive of me. All the rest of the family are at minimum 3-7 hours away except for the ones who live in California and the brother whom I have no idea where he lives. Some of them I rarely even talk to on the phone and haven't seen in years.

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Loved this line: "They're going to show others how broken things can be mended, maybe not back to the way they were but to a way that lets the light shine through the cracks and heal the hurts."

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I would add from my volunteer work over 15 years that many of those broken families are dysfunctional. I've worked with young women sexually molested by the fathers or their mothers' assorted boyfriends, others where parents are drug or alcohol addicts.

How can those children learn to provide any genuine culture in which to bring up their own children?

Always amazes me when broken children from broken homes grow up to raise their children using the same destructive ways that they themselves resented.

I hated the way I was raised and by the time I was 12 I KNEW that I would not raise my children the same way. Although I wasn't fortunate enough to have children and put that vow into practice, my 3 siblings who did have children had evidently made the same vow because none of them raised their children as we had been. They are all much better adjusted than any of us were when we finally stepped out into the world on our own. So I don't get why anyone would put their children through the same or similar childhood that they found lacking or even destructive for themselves.

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I'm obviously not making myself clear.

I'm not suggesting we recreate the hunter-gatherer culture.

What I am saying is we need to re-examine what has made cultures work in the past and learn from them.

I get that. What I'm saying is that maybe things have changed so drastically that none of that would work in our current situation. We'll need to find a different way.

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Despite their significant differences, both authors studied the past and took what they thought was a way out.

Well, I certainly hope that someone somewhere is capable of determining something considerably more humane than either of those scenarios.

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Where, today, do we see educated people analysing this issue and presenting effective solution?

Don't quite know how it got started but there does seem to be a trend here where builders are designing entire encapsulated communities where schools, shops and work are close enough that walking becomes the preferred way of getting to and from in many instances.

Many of our malls are closing and people are attempting to live closer to where they work even now. Lots of us are having our groceries, household items, and clothing delivered, saving lots of travel, time, and even money in some instances. It still seems a bit far off for us older folks, but it does seem they are at least attempting to find solutions to some of the problems that has kept many feeling disconnected from family, friends and community.

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Dear gods, we can't even provide effective education systems despite the fact I was reading Jean Piaget (1936) long before I married, Maria Montessori before I had children.

The information is all there, everything we need, yet I am buggered if I can see any effort at all being made to solve this.

We are starting to hear some noise from our Democrats regarding education. Hopefully, there will be some action on it before long.

But I certainly agree, the current education system is far from adequate.

Will have to take up the rest later this afternoon/evening.


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Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 5223 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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Don't quite know how it got started but there does seem to be a trend here where builders are designing entire encapsulated communities where schools, shops and work are close enough that walking becomes the preferred way of getting to and from in many instances.



I believe Disney started the concept, although many others have implemented it too.

As for our education system part of the broken is the family that doesn’t value education.
 
Posts: 6530 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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