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Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Doing the imdependent study was something you needed to do, the pdf just backs up what you already learned on your own, it's the way things work for some.


Well, it was a nice study and I certainly enjoyed it.

It did make me wonder though how many people ever catch that the promises of Kings and Nations were split amongst Jacob's son Judah and his grandsons Ephraim and Manasseh...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
We had some of the computers, but not all were considered essential, I and others maintained the software that was essential, but no we weren’t 24/7!

We supported among other things the police systems.


I had worked first for IRS downtown, then 818th Hospital Center (a Reservist Center) at Fort Gillem, and then Personnel at FORSCOM at Fort McPherson. While I was working in Personnel, I was selected to work one of the major ops exercises for which a ts clearance was required. The ts requirement came as a shock to me because I was to work in a clerical position for which many others would have been a better choice. But...they couldn't get/maintain the level of clearance necessary!

But while I was working the exercise, I finally found my niche. It was very interesting work and it fit my personality and work ethic much better. So the first opportunity I had to apply for a position in ops, I took it. And wouldn't you know, it was right in the heart of the Ops Center; Current Ops! I did more work in a single morning than I had done all week in Personnel. At the end of the day I always felt "where did the day go!"

And I was the only female in a 14-man office. If I'd had a husband and/or children, I wouldn't have been able to give it nearly as much as I did because I'd have run out of energy long before bedtime. In fact, most women at HQ FORSCOM refused to work in ops for that reason - along with having to have a pretty tuff disposition and capable of pushing back when the boyz got ruff. Something that 5 brothers had given me plenty of exercise in!

I think I had been in the position around 4 months when the HQ decided to audit their mission essential positions. By that time I had taken on more advanced work than was originally in my job description so when the boss informed me of my new mission essential status, he also informed me that he had ordered a desk audit of my position for the purpose of a promotion! It took 2 tries, but right in the midst of DS/DS, I got my first promotion.

Thank goodness I never had to deploy for an OP, but I did have to deploy (really just a tdy) to another HQ/Installation for a couple of 1-2 week major exercises.

When our MSCA/HLS SME was relieved of duty for a nasty little porn habit on a government computer, I was already familiar enough with his duties (since I had to do much of his work to keep us on schedule), that they, for the first time in ages, civilianized a military position so that they could promote me into it.

About 7 years or so before I retired, they had me training all the newly arriving Reservists on how to write military OPORDS! Sheesh, they thought I was Queen of OPS! 'Twas a fun part of my job; a sillyvilian teaching Majors and LTCs how to write and process orders! Loved it even though it meant that I had to work weekends.

And sometimes I even miss it - but not enough to go back, trust me. Don't think I could do those 12-18+ hour days any more - even for short periods of time.


Good to hear there are some who will go the extra mile to promote those that are truly qualified. As for the long hours, I got where I could say “already paid my dues”. During Y2K I was questioned a to why I wasn’t spending 70 hours a week for 6 months. The answer was simple, because when I do that I’m out sick for a week, after 2-3 weeks, which can actually be a loss. I however promised that the last 2-3 weeks when everyone was burned out I’d help get the last ditch effort to finish up complete. I did, and was appeaciated by my colleague, but our task leade just said he was surprised and had to be reminded that I’d help with the last ditch effort. I ended up being able to see and fix problems testing quickly, but then I was always good at that kind of task. I also had some of the energy the group needed to keep going. I had ultimately been on another task mostly so I had fresher eyes.
 
Posts: 11593 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Btw if you send me some of your snow, I'll give you my heat wave.


Does you heat wave come in the form of grass fires?
 
Posts: 11593 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Good to hear there are some who will go the extra mile to promote those that are truly qualified. As for the long hours, I got where I could say “already paid my dues”. During Y2K I was questioned a to why I wasn’t spending 70 hours a week for 6 months. The answer was simple, because when I do that I’m out sick for a week, after 2-3 weeks, which can actually be a loss. I however promised that the last 2-3 weeks when everyone was burned out I’d help get the last ditch effort to finish up complete. I did, and was appeaciated by my colleague, but our task leade just said he was surprised and had to be reminded that I’d help with the last ditch effort. I ended up being able to see and fix problems testing quickly, but then I was always good at that kind of task. I also had some of the energy the group needed to keep going. I had ultimately been on another task mostly so I had fresher eyes.


Well, I was in my mid 30s - late 50s through most of it. But I did suffer from adrenal burnout and a rear-end collision auto accident which damaged my back that finally brought me to the realization that I was a mere human after all!

But yeah, I had some great people to work with and for. Was really fortunate to have some terrific bosses - well except one. He wasn't real sure he liked me, but when my previous boss had put me in for a promotion before he left, they came to the new LTC to discuss my job description before making it final. But he was new and 2 days after he arrived a major OCONUS op kicked off (by that time I was the HLS SME and had little play in OCONUS stuff), so when they came to him he told them he had no idea what I did! When the lady showed a little exasperation, he says, "Look, she keeps all my work back in my office from biting me in the ass and keeps my admin section occupied and trained out here on the bridge (the 24/7 ops area) so I don't want to lose her. Promote her!"

When he presented me with my promotion certificate in front of the entire ops floor a few weeks later, he said that he still had no idea what I did, but since no 'gators had slithered upon the bridge to take a bite outta him, that I must be doin' it right. And though we never really warmed up to each other (he wasn't accustomed to brash civilian females in the ops arena), he left me to do my thing most of the time. Plus "his boys" (other military members of the team) liked working with me, so he had little choice, ya know!

Thankfully my last 2-3 years was without any major ops for which I'd have had to test myself on a 24/7 basis. But once I told them I was retiring at 60 after they announced the HQ FORSCOM move from McPherson to Bragg, my major objective was to train someone to take my place at Bragg.

And it just so happened that my assistant was a Major who was about to retire from military service and was looking to find a civilian position! You see, there is a God!

Dang it's good remembering some of that stuff.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by That JR Thang:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vicki:
What makes you think that most Israelites are now Christians?




The short answer? The Bible. And reading about the Lost Tribes of Israel.


What have you read about the lost tribes of Israel that cause you to believe that they are now Christians? What is the theory behind that, iow?




Ah, Vicki...ever done a study whereby you follow the 'promises of God' all the way through the Bible? If not, you have shortchanged yourself.

I'm going to post something I posted in response to Theo accusing me of replacement theology.

When Jacob’s name was changed to Israel and promises concerning the future of his children emerge, a blueprint of God’s purpose started to take shape.
And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. 11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; A NATION (singular) AND a COMPANY OF NATIONS (/GENTILES, plural) shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; 12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land. Gen 35:10

And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee in Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine...8 And Israel (Jacob) beheld Joseph’s sons, and said, Who are these? And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them…16 The angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let MY NAME (Israel) BE NAMED ON THEM, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. Gen 48:5

Israel then placed his hands on the boy’s heads and gave them his blessing. Ephraim, the younger son had the right hand placed on his head giving him the greater blessing. Manasseh would be a great people (multitude):…but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS (GENTILES). v19


Vicki:
Ephraim did turn out to be greater than Manasseh. Jeroboam was from the tribe of Ephraim and he became king of Israel, the northern kingdom. There were other great kings (though spiritually not so great). In various places in the OT, Israel is referred to as Ephraim. However, I do not see how this connects Israel to Christians.


JR:
But the Septre (kingship) went to Judah:Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall BOW DOWN before thee. 9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10 The SCEPTRE shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and UNTO HIM shall the gathering of the people be. 11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: 12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

NOTE: The SCEPTRE (Kingship) promised to Abraham went to Judah, and the MULTITUDES/NATIONS promised to Abraham went to Joseph. The name Israel went to the Northern Kingdom after the split because it was Ephraim and Manasseh upon whom Jacob put his name.


Vicki:
Abraham was the father of multitudes through his other wives/ concubines, such as Hagar and Keturah. We don't have to wait until Joseph's children to see other nations come from Abraham. Also, there is some disagreement about the translation of Gen 48:19. The translation you are using is "a multitude of nations". The HCSB translates it as "a populous nation". The literal translation is "a fullness of nations". I read this and see a prediction of the split, where the tribe of Ephraim will be ruling 10 of the tribes of Israel. It is going to become a nation, apart from Judah's rule, with many kings of their own. God chose Jeroboam out of the tribe of Ephraim to be king of the 10 tribes.


JR:
In determining who and what Israel is in the ‘last days’, we are looking for MANY NATIONS. There are twelve tribes to start with and Joseph, through his 2 sons, in turn alone will become many more nations, so we are weighing the possibility of numerous nations.

Vicki:
What specific nations, besides the various reigns of the kings of the northern kingdom, did Israel become?

JR:
Simeon and Levi however would be assimilated into the other tribes: Gen 49:5
Precisely how many nations that do evolve is not the issue. A reality you can’t escape is to understand the word ‘Israel’ in biblical prophecy does not necessarily refer to the ‘Jews’. The Jewish people are those who returned from exile in Babylon, but the northern 10 tribes, plus many from Benjamin from the southern nation of Judah. In most cases where Israel is mentioned in the Bible it is distinctly not referring to 'the Jews’.

Vicki:
Actually, it is not how many nations come from the 10 tribes of Israel that is the issue. The issue, as I see it, is what nations exactly evolved from those 10 tribes. It is a key point that would back up your position. Or are you just speaking figuratively or symbolically?


JR:
A modern case in point to illustrate this situation would be to use the European Union as an example. Germany is in the EU and France is in the EU. They are even neighbors, but try to tell a Frenchman that he is a German or vice versa and someone will get their dander up. Despite the Jewish people being the most readily identifiable, God’s word adds that they will not be the most predominant nation of Israel; that nation will come from the HOUSE OF JOSEPH.

Vicki:
Jesus said that salvation comes from the Jews. He didn't identify them as a nation. Yet, I think that salvations is far more important than any nations coming out of Joseph. Revelation stresses the importance of Jerusalem during the end times and during Jesus' reign. I repeat, "Jesus' reign". United Israel was on Peter's mind when he questioned Jesus, not Judah or separated Israel. All of that pales in comparison to what will happen in the future Jerusalem- the new Jerusalem when the new heaven and the new earth comes together.




JR:
All that taken with Jesus' "I'm not come but for the lost sheep of the House of Israel" along with Peter's and Paul's references to Israel, it should become clear that the 'ingathering' of Israel is Christianity; for they would be "called by a new name."


Vicki:
I believe that Jesus was referring to all Israel, including Judea, and so were Peter and Paul. Jesus made a point to preach salvation in both areas- the north and south. I do agree with you that in Jesus, Israel and Judah are brought together, which is promised in the Prophets. He then goes on to allow the Gentiles to be grafted in, through our faith in Jesus Messiah.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
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Devoted...
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quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
JR: And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee in Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine...8 And Israel (Jacob) beheld Joseph’s sons, and said, Who are these? And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them…16 The angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let MY NAME (Israel) BE NAMED ON THEM, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. Gen 48:5

Israel then placed his hands on the boy’s heads and gave them his blessing. Ephraim, the younger son had the right hand placed on his head giving him the greater blessing. Manasseh would be a great people (multitude):…but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS (GENTILES). v19


Vicki:
Ephraim did turn out to be greater than Manasseh. Jeroboam was from the tribe of Ephraim and he became king of Israel, the northern kingdom. There were other great kings (though spiritually not so great). In various places in the OT, Israel is referred to as Ephraim. However, I do not see how this connects Israel to Christians.


JR: Yes, Ephraim was greater in population than Manasseh. But you will only figure out how they became Christian by reading the NT and listening to WHO is being spoken of by Jesus and the Apostles. When Jesus says "I am not come but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel" he isn't speaking of all Israel any more that the term 'House of David' would speak of all Judah/Judea. House of Israel is the Northern Kingdom of Israel and House of Judah is the Southern Kingdom of Judah/Judea.

In Matt 10:23 Jesus states: "But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." The cities of Israel - the dispersed Israel (for they had been dispersed for over 600 years at that time) - not the 'cities of the Land of Israel' or 'Nation of Israel' for there was no Nation of Israel at that time, only the Nation of Judea, in the Land of Jacob's son Judah.

And in 1 Peter 2:9-10 Speaking to 'God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been CHOSEN ACCORDING TO THE FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood': - "But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Notice that Peter is quoting from the book of Hosea which was written entirely to the Northern Kingdom of Israel AFTER they were dispersed: Hosea 2:23 Speaking to ISRAEL, "I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God'."

Why would that mean that they are Christian? Because Jesus is the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah...If he isn't, then all of Christianity is following a false God. Jeremiah 31:31-34 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel AND with the House of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Jesus IS that Covenant according to Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the NEW COVENANT in my blood, which is poured out for you."

quote:
JR:
But the Septre (kingship) went to Judah:Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall BOW DOWN before thee. 9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10 The SCEPTRE shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and UNTO HIM shall the gathering of the people be. 11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: 12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

NOTE: The SCEPTRE (Kingship) promised to Abraham went to Judah, and the MULTITUDES/NATIONS promised to Abraham went to Joseph. The name Israel went to the Northern Kingdom after the split because it was Ephraim and Manasseh upon whom Jacob put his name.

Vicki:
Abraham was the father of multitudes through his other wives/ concubines, such as Hagar and Keturah. We don't have to wait until Joseph's children to see other nations come from Abraham. Also, there is some disagreement about the translation of Gen 48:19. The translation you are using is "a multitude of nations". The HCSB translates it as "a populous nation". The literal translation is "a fullness of nations". I read this and see a prediction of the split, where the tribe of Ephraim will be ruling 10 of the tribes of Israel. It is going to become a nation, apart from Judah's rule, with many kings of their own. God chose Jeroboam out of the tribe of Ephraim to be king of the 10 tribes.


JR: So you are going to ignore the fact that the Bible clearly states those same promises to Isaac and Jacob? And you are going to ignore that fact that it clearly has Jacob/Israel bestow those promises onto his son Judah and grandsons Ephraim and Manasseh? If it was all taken care of through Abraham, why bother with Isaac and Jacob...?

As for the translation, the OJB has:
Bereshis 48:19 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
19 "And aviv refused, and said, I know it, beni (my son), I know it; he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly achiv hakaton shall be greater than he, and his zera shall become a multitude of Goyim."

The YLT has:
Genesis 48:19 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
19 "And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'..."

And the JUB has:
Genesis 48:19 Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)
19 "And his father refused and said, I know it, my son, I know it; he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of Gentiles."

How you are reading the ten tribes to be nations over which Ephraim was ruling is beyond me since the Northern Kingdom of Israel was a single nation ruled over by Ephraim. But after it was dispersed, Jesus and the Judeans clearly knew where some of them were, as can be seen in the texts, and assured they would be gathered into the Church.

quote:
JR:
In determining who and what Israel is in the ‘last days’, we are looking for MANY NATIONS. There are twelve tribes to start with and Joseph, through his 2 sons, in turn alone will become many more nations, so we are weighing the possibility of numerous nations.

Vicki:
What specific nations, besides the various reigns of the kings of the northern kingdom, did Israel become?


JR: There are people who are attempting to track and identify exactly where they are - a much larger movement than I would have even dared to dream of, but one online site is britam.org:

The exiles would be taken to the west (Isaiah 24:14).

[Isaiah 24:14]
"THEY SHALL LIFT UP THEIR VOICE; THEY SHALL SING FOR THE MAJESTY OF THE LORD, THEY SHALL CRY ALOUD FROM THE SEA."

FROM THE SEA: In Hebrew also meaning from the west. The Aramaic and Commentators say it means the exiles will be in the west in the last Days. Then it goes on to speak of Britain.

[Isaiah 24:15] "WHEREFORE GLORIFY YE THE LORD IN THE FIRES, EVEN THE NAME OF THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL IN THE ISLES OF THE SEA."

Isaiah says (49:8) that the exiled of Israel will be preserved and become a covenant of people (in Hebrew a Brit-Am), who will establish the world and inherit wasted heritages (uninhabited places). They will use released prisoners to colonize these heritages (49:9), as the British did at first in North America and Australia. They shall return from the north and from the west, and from the land of Sinim, meaning Australia.

[Isaiah 49:12] "Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim."

Midrashim confirm that these verses are referring to the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel.

The Exiles will return from the west (Hosea 11:10).

[Hosea 11:10] "THEY SHALL WALK AFTER THE LORD: HE SHALL ROAR LIKE A LION: WHEN HE SHALL ROAR, THEN THE CHILDREN SHALL TREMBLE FROM THE WEST."

THE CHILDREN SHALL TREMBLE FROM THE WEST: Commentators (such as the Aramaic Translation) say that this refers to the exiles of Israel returning from the west.

[Hosea 11:11] "THEY SHALL TREMBLE AS A BIRD OUT OF EGYPT, AND AS A DOVE OUT OF THE LAND OF ASSYRIA: AND I WILL PLACE THEM IN THEIR HOUSES, SAITH THE LORD".

A DOVE OUT OF THE LAND OF ASSYRIA: These are the Ten Tribes (Shir HaSHirim Rabah 1:63).

There are numerous others and a laundry list of books, some of which I have already listed for you.

quote:
JR:
Simeon and Levi however would be assimilated into the other tribes: Gen 49:5
Precisely how many nations that do evolve is not the issue. A reality you can’t escape is to understand the word ‘Israel’ in biblical prophecy does not necessarily refer to the ‘Jews’. The Jewish people are those who returned from exile in Babylon, but the northern 10 tribes, plus many from Benjamin from the southern nation of Judah. In most cases where Israel is mentioned in the Bible it is distinctly not referring to 'the Jews’.

Vicki:
Actually, it is not how many nations come from the 10 tribes of Israel that is the issue. The issue, as I see it, is what nations exactly evolved from those 10 tribes. It is a key point that would back up your position. Or are you just speaking figuratively or symbolically?


JR: Since many of those who were dispersed lost their identity through intermarriage and just plain old forgetfulness as time passed and life got difficult, I believe, as most do, that the majority of the Israelites are still lost to themselves - but certainly not from God. But, as stated above, there are people who have made it their business to identify and track the 10 lost tribes.

quote:
JR:
A modern case in point to illustrate this situation would be to use the European Union as an example. Germany is in the EU and France is in the EU. They are even neighbors, but try to tell a Frenchman that he is a German or vice versa and someone will get their dander up. Despite the Jewish people being the most readily identifiable, God’s word adds that they will not be the most predominant nation of Israel; that nation will come from the HOUSE OF JOSEPH.

Vicki:
Jesus said that salvation comes from the Jews. He didn't identify them as a nation. Yet, I think that salvations is far more important than any nations coming out of Joseph. Revelation stresses the importance of Jerusalem during the end times and during Jesus' reign. I repeat, "Jesus' reign". United Israel was on Peter's mind when he questioned Jesus, not Judah or separated Israel. All of that pales in comparison to what will happen in the future Jerusalem- the new Jerusalem when the new heaven and the new earth comes together.


JR: Was Jesus not from the Jews? Were the disciples not from the Jews?

And 'end times' can be a real sticky point because to the Jews in Judea and Qumran, the 'end times' they were speaking of was the demolition of Jerusalem and Judea, not the 'End of Time' as we are bent to make it be.

I do not believe a literal 'New Jerusalem' will literally 'come down out of Heaven' since the entire book of Revelation is full of apocalyptic symbologies which are certainly not meant to be taken literally.

quote:
JR:
All that taken with Jesus' "I'm not come but for the lost sheep of the House of Israel" along with Peter's and Paul's references to Israel, it should become clear that the 'ingathering' of Israel is Christianity; for they would be "called by a new name."

Vicki:
I believe that Jesus was referring to all Israel, including Judea, and so were Peter and Paul. Jesus made a point to preach salvation in both areas- the north and south. I do agree with you that in Jesus, Israel and Judah are brought together, which is promised in the Prophets. He then goes on to allow the Gentiles to be grafted in, through our faith in Jesus Messiah.


JR: Well, of course Jesus was speaking OF all Israel, but understand clearly, the bulk of the Northern Kingdom was located nowhere near Judea so he wouldn't have been speaking TO them. And there were many more lost sheep from the Northern Kingdom of Israel than there were in Judea. And since Peter and Paul were known to have been preaching in the known areas of the Northern Kingdom diaspora, then it is considerably more likely that they knew themselves to be speaking to the Northern Kingdom diaspora since the diaspora Southern Kingdom were allowed to return from Babylon/Persia - although many chose not to.

Peter, in 1:1 Peter, addresses his letter to the strangers (pilgrams) scattered throughout Pontus, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,...

Flavius Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, Chap V, Ver 2, p 234) states: ...the ten tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.
Maps show Pontus, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia are beyond (north of) the Euphrates.

Paul writing to the Romans in Romans 9:3-4 ...my BREATHERN, my KINSMEN ACCORDING TO THE FLESH: Who are ISRAELITES; to whom pertaineth the ADOPTION, and the GLORY, and the COVENANTS, and the GIVING OF THE LAW, and the SERVICE OF GOD, and the PROMISES.
Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin (House of Judah); he's calling those in Rome breathern, kinsmen of the flesh, Israelites, to whom the adoption, covenants and law, service and promises of God pertain.

John 7:35 The Jews (Judahites) therefore said one to another, 'Where does this Man (Jesus) intend to go that we shall not find Him? He is not intending to go to the DISPERSION AMONG THE GREEKS (Hellens) and teach the GREEKS, is He?
Notice 'dispersion' and 'Greeks' (teach the Greeks) refer to the same people. And who was dispersed at this time but the northern 10 tribes? The Jews were not dispersed again until the Temple was destroyed.

It is an extremely interesting subject and I highly recommend an in-depth study.

But my point in ALL of this is that it isn't something yet to happen in some distant future; it is already happening!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Good to hear there are some who will go the extra mile to promote those that are truly qualified. As for the long hours, I got where I could say “already paid my dues”. During Y2K I was questioned a to why I wasn’t spending 70 hours a week for 6 months. The answer was simple, because when I do that I’m out sick for a week, after 2-3 weeks, which can actually be a loss. I however promised that the last 2-3 weeks when everyone was burned out I’d help get the last ditch effort to finish up complete. I did, and was appeaciated by my colleague, but our task leade just said he was surprised and had to be reminded that I’d help with the last ditch effort. I ended up being able to see and fix problems testing quickly, but then I was always good at that kind of task. I also had some of the energy the group needed to keep going. I had ultimately been on another task mostly so I had fresher eyes.


Well, I was in my mid 30s - late 50s through most of it. But I did suffer from adrenal burnout and a rear-end collision auto accident which damaged my back that finally brought me to the realization that I was a mere human after all!

But yeah, I had some great people to work with and for. Was really fortunate to have some terrific bosses - well except one. He wasn't real sure he liked me, but when my previous boss had put me in for a promotion before he left, they came to the new LTC to discuss my job description before making it final. But he was new and 2 days after he arrived a major OCONUS op kicked off (by that time I was the HLS SME and had little play in OCONUS stuff), so when they came to him he told them he had no idea what I did! When the lady showed a little exasperation, he says, "Look, she keeps all my work back in my office from biting me in the ass and keeps my admin section occupied and trained out here on the bridge (the 24/7 ops area) so I don't want to lose her. Promote her!"

When he presented me with my promotion certificate in front of the entire ops floor a few weeks later, he said that he still had no idea what I did, but since no 'gators had slithered upon the bridge to take a bite outta him, that I must be doin' it right. And though we never really warmed up to each other (he wasn't accustomed to brash civilian females in the ops arena), he left me to do my thing most of the time. Plus "his boys" (other military members of the team) liked working with me, so he had little choice, ya know!

Thankfully my last 2-3 years was without any major ops for which I'd have had to test myself on a 24/7 basis. But once I told them I was retiring at 60 after they announced the HQ FORSCOM move from McPherson to Bragg, my major objective was to train someone to take my place at Bragg.

And it just so happened that my assistant was a Major who was about to retire from military service and was looking to find a civilian position! You see, there is a God!

Dang it's good remembering some of that stuff.


Indeed remembering is good, and seeing the roses between the thorns isn’t bad either.
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Indeed remembering is good, and seeing the roses between the thorns isn’t bad either.


True that!

Oh, got an email from mrs exp. Seems she didn't get my last email explaining that she was using the wrong URL for getting onto Aantares. Hopefully she will get the one I sent today and we will see her here soon.

Nope, she hasn't made the trip to Hawaii yet...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
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Originally posted by bryan:
Doing the imdependent study was something you needed to do, the pdf just backs up what you already learned on your own, it's the way things work for some.


Well, it was a nice study and I certainly enjoyed it.

It did make me wonder though how many people ever catch that the promises of Kings and Nations were split amongst Jacob's son Judah and his grandsons Ephraim and Manasseh...


Not enough.


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bryan j borich
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
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Originally posted by bryan:
Btw if you send me some of your snow, I'll give you my heat wave.


Does you heat wave come in the form of grass fires?


No, the warning of the heat wave warned of the fires though. At least locally we were on a fire alert for the county.


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bryan j borich
 
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Originally posted by Vicki:

Vicki:
I believe that Jesus was referring to all Israel, including Judea, and so were Peter and Paul. Jesus made a point to preach salvation in both areas- the north and south. I do agree with you that in Jesus, Israel and Judah are brought together, which is promised in the Prophets. He then goes on to allow the Gentiles to be grafted in, through our faith in Jesus Messiah.


Jesus never brought Israel and Judah together And Israel was scattered everywhere.

Plus he wasn't preaching anything new.

And no, no grafting other then what was already there in the other religions.


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bryan j borich
 
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
JR: And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee in Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine...8 And Israel (Jacob) beheld Joseph’s sons, and said, Who are these? And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them…16 The angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let MY NAME (Israel) BE NAMED ON THEM, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. Gen 48:5

Israel then placed his hands on the boy’s heads and gave them his blessing. Ephraim, the younger son had the right hand placed on his head giving him the greater blessing. Manasseh would be a great people (multitude):…but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS (GENTILES). v19


Vicki:
Ephraim did turn out to be greater than Manasseh. Jeroboam was from the tribe of Ephraim and he became king of Israel, the northern kingdom. There were other great kings (though spiritually not so great). In various places in the OT, Israel is referred to as Ephraim. However, I do not see how this connects Israel to Christians.


JR: Yes, Ephraim was greater in population than Manasseh. But you will only figure out how they became Christian by reading the NT and listening to WHO is being spoken of by Jesus and the Apostles. When Jesus says "I am not come but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel" he isn't speaking of all Israel any more that the term 'House of David' would speak of all Judah/Judea. House of Israel is the Northern Kingdom of Israel and House of Judah is the Southern Kingdom of Judah/Judea.

In Matt 10:23 Jesus states: "But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." The cities of Israel - the dispersed Israel (for they had been dispersed for over 600 years at that time) - not the 'cities of the Land of Israel' or 'Nation of Israel' for there was no Nation of Israel at that time, only the Nation of Judea, in the Land of Jacob's son Judah.

And in 1 Peter 2:9-10 Speaking to 'God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been CHOSEN ACCORDING TO THE FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood': - "But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Notice that Peter is quoting from the book of Hosea which was written entirely to the Northern Kingdom of Israel AFTER they were dispersed: Hosea 2:23 Speaking to ISRAEL, "I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God'."

Why would that mean that they are Christian? Because Jesus is the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah...If he isn't, then all of Christianity is following a false God. Jeremiah 31:31-34 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel AND with the House of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Jesus IS that Covenant according to Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the NEW COVENANT in my blood, which is poured out for you."

quote:
JR:
But the Septre (kingship) went to Judah:Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall BOW DOWN before thee. 9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10 The SCEPTRE shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and UNTO HIM shall the gathering of the people be. 11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: 12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

NOTE: The SCEPTRE (Kingship) promised to Abraham went to Judah, and the MULTITUDES/NATIONS promised to Abraham went to Joseph. The name Israel went to the Northern Kingdom after the split because it was Ephraim and Manasseh upon whom Jacob put his name.

Vicki:
Abraham was the father of multitudes through his other wives/ concubines, such as Hagar and Keturah. We don't have to wait until Joseph's children to see other nations come from Abraham. Also, there is some disagreement about the translation of Gen 48:19. The translation you are using is "a multitude of nations". The HCSB translates it as "a populous nation". The literal translation is "a fullness of nations". I read this and see a prediction of the split, where the tribe of Ephraim will be ruling 10 of the tribes of Israel. It is going to become a nation, apart from Judah's rule, with many kings of their own. God chose Jeroboam out of the tribe of Ephraim to be king of the 10 tribes.


JR: So you are going to ignore the fact that the Bible clearly states those same promises to Isaac and Jacob? And you are going to ignore that fact that it clearly has Jacob/Israel bestow those promises onto his son Judah and grandsons Ephraim and Manasseh? If it was all taken care of through Abraham, why bother with Isaac and Jacob...?

As for the translation, the OJB has:
Bereshis 48:19 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
19 "And aviv refused, and said, I know it, beni (my son), I know it; he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly achiv hakaton shall be greater than he, and his zera shall become a multitude of Goyim."

The YLT has:
Genesis 48:19 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
19 "And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'..."

And the JUB has:
Genesis 48:19 Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)
19 "And his father refused and said, I know it, my son, I know it; he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of Gentiles."

How you are reading the ten tribes to be nations over which Ephraim was ruling is beyond me since the Northern Kingdom of Israel was a single nation ruled over by Ephraim. But after it was dispersed, Jesus and the Judeans clearly knew where some of them were, as can be seen in the texts, and assured they would be gathered into the Church.

quote:
JR:
In determining who and what Israel is in the ‘last days’, we are looking for MANY NATIONS. There are twelve tribes to start with and Joseph, through his 2 sons, in turn alone will become many more nations, so we are weighing the possibility of numerous nations.

Vicki:
What specific nations, besides the various reigns of the kings of the northern kingdom, did Israel become?


JR: There are people who are attempting to track and identify exactly where they are - a much larger movement than I would have even dared to dream of, but one online site is britam.org:

The exiles would be taken to the west (Isaiah 24:14).

[Isaiah 24:14]
"THEY SHALL LIFT UP THEIR VOICE; THEY SHALL SING FOR THE MAJESTY OF THE LORD, THEY SHALL CRY ALOUD FROM THE SEA."

FROM THE SEA: In Hebrew also meaning from the west. The Aramaic and Commentators say it means the exiles will be in the west in the last Days. Then it goes on to speak of Britain.

[Isaiah 24:15] "WHEREFORE GLORIFY YE THE LORD IN THE FIRES, EVEN THE NAME OF THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL IN THE ISLES OF THE SEA."

Isaiah says (49:8) that the exiled of Israel will be preserved and become a covenant of people (in Hebrew a Brit-Am), who will establish the world and inherit wasted heritages (uninhabited places). They will use released prisoners to colonize these heritages (49:9), as the British did at first in North America and Australia. They shall return from the north and from the west, and from the land of Sinim, meaning Australia.

[Isaiah 49:12] "Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim."

Midrashim confirm that these verses are referring to the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel.

The Exiles will return from the west (Hosea 11:10).

[Hosea 11:10] "THEY SHALL WALK AFTER THE LORD: HE SHALL ROAR LIKE A LION: WHEN HE SHALL ROAR, THEN THE CHILDREN SHALL TREMBLE FROM THE WEST."

THE CHILDREN SHALL TREMBLE FROM THE WEST: Commentators (such as the Aramaic Translation) say that this refers to the exiles of Israel returning from the west.

[Hosea 11:11] "THEY SHALL TREMBLE AS A BIRD OUT OF EGYPT, AND AS A DOVE OUT OF THE LAND OF ASSYRIA: AND I WILL PLACE THEM IN THEIR HOUSES, SAITH THE LORD".

A DOVE OUT OF THE LAND OF ASSYRIA: These are the Ten Tribes (Shir HaSHirim Rabah 1:63).

There are numerous others and a laundry list of books, some of which I have already listed for you.

quote:
JR:
Simeon and Levi however would be assimilated into the other tribes: Gen 49:5
Precisely how many nations that do evolve is not the issue. A reality you can’t escape is to understand the word ‘Israel’ in biblical prophecy does not necessarily refer to the ‘Jews’. The Jewish people are those who returned from exile in Babylon, but the northern 10 tribes, plus many from Benjamin from the southern nation of Judah. In most cases where Israel is mentioned in the Bible it is distinctly not referring to 'the Jews’.

Vicki:
Actually, it is not how many nations come from the 10 tribes of Israel that is the issue. The issue, as I see it, is what nations exactly evolved from those 10 tribes. It is a key point that would back up your position. Or are you just speaking figuratively or symbolically?


JR: Since many of those who were dispersed lost their identity through intermarriage and just plain old forgetfulness as time passed and life got difficult, I believe, as most do, that the majority of the Israelites are still lost to themselves - but certainly not from God. But, as stated above, there are people who have made it their business to identify and track the 10 lost tribes.

quote:
JR:
A modern case in point to illustrate this situation would be to use the European Union as an example. Germany is in the EU and France is in the EU. They are even neighbors, but try to tell a Frenchman that he is a German or vice versa and someone will get their dander up. Despite the Jewish people being the most readily identifiable, God’s word adds that they will not be the most predominant nation of Israel; that nation will come from the HOUSE OF JOSEPH.

Vicki:
Jesus said that salvation comes from the Jews. He didn't identify them as a nation. Yet, I think that salvations is far more important than any nations coming out of Joseph. Revelation stresses the importance of Jerusalem during the end times and during Jesus' reign. I repeat, "Jesus' reign". United Israel was on Peter's mind when he questioned Jesus, not Judah or separated Israel. All of that pales in comparison to what will happen in the future Jerusalem- the new Jerusalem when the new heaven and the new earth comes together.


JR: Was Jesus not from the Jews? Were the disciples not from the Jews?

And 'end times' can be a real sticky point because to the Jews in Judea and Qumran, the 'end times' they were speaking of was the demolition of Jerusalem and Judea, not the 'End of Time' as we are bent to make it be.

I do not believe a literal 'New Jerusalem' will literally 'come down out of Heaven' since the entire book of Revelation is full of apocalyptic symbologies which are certainly not meant to be taken literally.

quote:
JR:
All that taken with Jesus' "I'm not come but for the lost sheep of the House of Israel" along with Peter's and Paul's references to Israel, it should become clear that the 'ingathering' of Israel is Christianity; for they would be "called by a new name."

Vicki:
I believe that Jesus was referring to all Israel, including Judea, and so were Peter and Paul. Jesus made a point to preach salvation in both areas- the north and south. I do agree with you that in Jesus, Israel and Judah are brought together, which is promised in the Prophets. He then goes on to allow the Gentiles to be grafted in, through our faith in Jesus Messiah.


JR: Well, of course Jesus was speaking OF all Israel, but understand clearly, the bulk of the Northern Kingdom was located nowhere near Judea so he wouldn't have been speaking TO them. And there were many more lost sheep from the Northern Kingdom of Israel than there were in Judea. And since Peter and Paul were known to have been preaching in the known areas of the Northern Kingdom diaspora, then it is considerably more likely that they knew themselves to be speaking to the Northern Kingdom diaspora since the diaspora Southern Kingdom were allowed to return from Babylon/Persia - although many chose not to.

Peter, in 1:1 Peter, addresses his letter to the strangers (pilgrams) scattered throughout Pontus, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,...

Flavius Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, Chap V, Ver 2, p 234) states: ...the ten tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.
Maps show Pontus, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia are beyond (north of) the Euphrates.

Paul writing to the Romans in Romans 9:3-4 ...my BREATHERN, my KINSMEN ACCORDING TO THE FLESH: Who are ISRAELITES; to whom pertaineth the ADOPTION, and the GLORY, and the COVENANTS, and the GIVING OF THE LAW, and the SERVICE OF GOD, and the PROMISES.
Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin (House of Judah); he's calling those in Rome breathern, kinsmen of the flesh, Israelites, to whom the adoption, covenants and law, service and promises of God pertain.

John 7:35 The Jews (Judahites) therefore said one to another, 'Where does this Man (Jesus) intend to go that we shall not find Him? He is not intending to go to the DISPERSION AMONG THE GREEKS (Hellens) and teach the GREEKS, is He?
Notice 'dispersion' and 'Greeks' (teach the Greeks) refer to the same people. And who was dispersed at this time but the northern 10 tribes? The Jews were not dispersed again until the Temple was destroyed.

It is an extremely interesting subject and I highly recommend an in-depth study.

But my point in ALL of this is that it isn't something yet to happen in some distant future; it is already happening!


They are still 'lost' to themselves for the most part, and yes it has been starting to happen since the 60's(hippies). Maybe longer if one gets into theosophy.

And if I recall, Paul states the true Jews are those that will have the Law written on their hearts (making it hard to break).


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bryan j borich
 
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Originally posted by bryan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Doing the imdependent study was something you needed to do, the pdf just backs up what you already learned on your own, it's the way things work for some.


Well, it was a nice study and I certainly enjoyed it.

It did make me wonder though how many people ever catch that the promises of Kings and Nations were split amongst Jacob's son Judah and his grandsons Ephraim and Manasseh...


Not enough.


Not enough what?


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Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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Originally posted by bryan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by That JR Thang:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vicki:
JR:It is an extremely interesting subject and I highly recommend an in-depth study.

But my point in ALL of this is that it isn't something yet to happen in some distant future; it is already happening!


quote:
Bryan: They are still 'lost' to themselves for the most part, and yes it has been starting to happen since the 60's(hippies). Maybe longer if one gets into theosophy.

And if I recall, Paul states the true Jews are those that will have the Law written on their hearts (making it hard to break).


Oh, I'm thinking it goes back much further than the 60s - at least back to the apostles.

The first, of course, was Jeremiah in 31:33; "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Then Paul in:
Romans 2:14 "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, 15since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them."

And Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Reed N D Dark
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Indeed remembering is good, and seeing the roses between the thorns isn’t bad either.


True that!

Oh, got an email from mrs exp. Seems she didn't get my last email explaining that she was using the wrong URL for getting onto Aantares. Hopefully she will get the one I sent today and we will see her here soon.

Nope, she hasn't made the trip to Hawaii yet...


Will keep looking for her, but I believe I’m getting frustrated with the format too!
 
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Btw if you send me some of your snow, I'll give you my heat wave.


Does you heat wave come in the form of grass fires?


No, the warning of the heat wave warned of the fires though. At least locally we were on a fire alert for the county.


Stay safe, I can’t imagine a fire in balboa park!
 
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Doing the imdependent study was something you needed to do, the pdf just backs up what you already learned on your own, it's the way things work for some.


Well, it was a nice study and I certainly enjoyed it.

It did make me wonder though how many people ever catch that the promises of Kings and Nations were split amongst Jacob's son Judah and his grandsons Ephraim and Manasseh...


Not enough.


Not enough what?



Catch the promises and stuff. And a lot never seem to read Amos or Hosea either.

Was reading a bunch of comments related to an article about Israel returning Lebanon to the stone age. Most of the initial ones I saw were end-of-day comments, as if Israel as given in the Bible actually existed. Like stuff the posse might write or read.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bryan j borich
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Indeed remembering is good, and seeing the roses between the thorns isn’t bad either.


True that!

Oh, got an email from mrs exp. Seems she didn't get my last email explaining that she was using the wrong URL for getting onto Aantares. Hopefully she will get the one I sent today and we will see her here soon.

Nope, she hasn't made the trip to Hawaii yet...


Will keep looking for her, but I believe I’m getting frustrated with the format too!


I sent her 2 emails yesterday and called her 3 times this morning...nadda. It sounded like someone picked up the receiver on the other end, but I couldn't hear a thing. Have no idea what that may mean unless there is service interruption there.

Ahhh, just tried again and I reached her! She is fine but there seems to be something amiss with her phone and email. She isn't getting some emails and is either not hearing the phone or maybe the calls aren't making it through. Dunno, but she is going to try logging on here again.

Guess I'm getting use to the format and am now able to manipulate it a little bit.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan:
Doing the imdependent study was something you needed to do, the pdf just backs up what you already learned on your own, it's the way things work for some.


quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang: Well, it was a nice study and I certainly enjoyed it.

It did make me wonder though how many people ever catch that the promises of Kings and Nations were split amongst Jacob's son Judah and his grandsons Ephraim and Manasseh...


quote:
Originally posted by bryan: Not enough.


quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang: Not enough what?


quote:
Originally posted by bryan: Catch the promises and stuff. And a lot never seem to read Amos or Hosea either.


Ahhh, OK.

quote:
Originally posted by bryan: Was reading a bunch of comments related to an article about Israel returning Lebanon to the stone age. Most of the initial ones I saw were end-of-day comments, as if Israel as given in the Bible actually existed. Like stuff the posse might write or read.


Boggles the mind, it does!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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if this can be viewed it might be of some interest, if only because of when it was written.

https://play.google.com/books/...jAAAAcAAJ&pg=GBS.PR9


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bryan j borich
 
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