Aantares    Aantares BB  Hop To Forum Categories  Your Lifestyle & Culture  Hop To Forums  Religion & Spirituality    Biblical Scholar: Dont take Bible literally
      Page: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ... 37
Go To
Post
Search BB
Notify Me
TOS/Tools/Smilies
Reply
  
Biblical Scholar: Dont take Bible literally
 Login/Register
 
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
The debate about the accuracy of the Bible is not new, but as a Christian I believe that it is authoritative truth for my life. It is integral in my relationship with God. One of the best ways to get close to someone is to get to know them. God's Word provides much information about God's attributes, interactions, plans, power, purposes and what God expects of us.
Last night at our Base Camp Student Ministries, our youth pastor read a quote from Charles Wesley in which he made a logical argument for the authority of the Bible:
"The Bible must be the invention either of good men or angels, bad men or devils, or of God.
1) It could not be the invention of good men or angels, for they neither would or could make a book, and tell lies all the time they were writing it saying, 'Thus saith the Lord', when it was their own invention.
2) It could not be the invention of bad men or devils; for they would not make a book which commands all duty, forbids all sin, and condemns their souls to hell to all eternity.
3) Therefore, I draw this conclusion, that the Bible must be given by divine inspiration."


I suggest you find someone far better qualified than Charles Wesley, who died in 1788. Especially since, as was proper in his time, he actually believed in angels, devils and demons.

Given that the mythology of Sodom and Gomorrah is virtually identical to the mythology of the creation of the Atherton Tablelands lakes Yidyam (Lake Eacham), Barany (Lake Barrine) and Ngimun (Lake Euramo), something Wesley could not have known, it is easy to see most if not all mythologies were created by the best of men with the best of intentions.

The only question I see is whether those men personally believed in the actuality of the deities and demons they created to give their stories more power.

http://www.ngadjonji.bigpondho...istory/history2.html
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
Thank you for correcting my Cain post. Knew there was something wrong, even checked other sources, and still stuffed it up.

quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
Allan:
What sources can you provide to affirm from on-site evidence that everything the Bible says is virtually true?
Vicki:
Why do you say stuff like this? This is nonsense- to insist on archaeological evidence that affirms "EVERYTHING the Bible says is virtually true?" When did archaeological evidence affirm EVERYTHING about anything as virtually true? (Emphasis mine)


Archaeology confirms much of what we accept of our civilisation past.

It is unable to confirm much of what the Bible claims is our historical past. They can find no evidence whatsoever on many Bible claims.

quote:
Vicki:
Their exercise is flawed. There are different Hebrew definitions for "Elohim". None of them come even close to meaning "Shining Ones", in English. In order to come up with "Shining Ones", they have to go to other middle eastern languages and import the meaning.


Sources, please.

quote:
Allan: The fact that the deity of the Bible is an established cultural anthropomorphic deity does not negate what I said earlier about the Brahman concept, one which is far better established. Are you aware that quantum physicists are finding it worthwhile to research Hinduism, something they see no need for in Christianity ?
Vicki: What do physicists have to do with establishing the validity of God?


Given there is no evidence of any deities, scientists can have no interest in this.

Quantum physicists are finding much of interest, relevant to their science, in the Hindu scripts.

Have yet to find a literal translation of the Sanskrit, but I have seen many translations referring to other suns, other planets, other dimensions, which are nowhere in any Bible I have read. Best the Bible can do is their several levels of Heaven, a flat circular planet orbited by our sun, and the thought that stars (and planets, though they knew nothing of this) were "signs and portents", in other words, a reference to the Jewish astrology.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
Has anyone read the news story about DC Comics coming out with a mature audience book entitled "Second Coming" in March, about Jesus being released from his prison in heaven to return to earth and try to figure out where he went wrong? He rooms with a super hero named Sun-Man. Here is the link to the breitbart report, https://www.breitbart.com/ente...ngling-jesus-christ/

What do you think of this?

For those of us who take the Bible, literally, it is quite perplexing.

No much of a good read for those of us who are not literalists either.

Funny how those of us who are Christian are expected to take it on the chin while other religions can easily claim discrimination, huh. But then, that is exactly what is expected of us when we are true Christians, isn't it?

Don't have to like it though...


I heard one Christian who stated that we should speak up and suggested a boycott. I had to smile to myself because I don't read comics, anyway, so what good would it do for me to boycott DC Comics?

I think that the best advice I heard was for Christians to pray for the two authors- that they would discover what the gospel is really all about and that Jesus did not fail in the mission that the Father gave him.


It does bring to question, for me anyway- do people nowadays really know what the good news about Jesus is, and what he did for us in his first coming?

Do they understand what the Bible says about Jesus' Second Coming? The ladies Bible study group that I am a part of is almost finished with the books of the OT, and it is very interesting how much is said about the actual physical rule of Messiah of the world, not just Israel.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
It does bring to question, for me anyway- do people nowadays really know what the good news about Jesus is, and what he did for us in his first coming?
Do they understand what the Bible says about Jesus' Second Coming? The ladies Bible study group that I am a part of is almost finished with the books of the OT, and it is very interesting how much is said about the actual physical rule of Messiah of the world, not just Israel.


That raises additional questions.

Quite apart from China, India, Africa, who in the USA, Canada, Britain, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, will accept this (my emphasese, of course)?

https://israelmyglory.org/arti...sees-israels-future/
In the Millennium, Israel will be priests of the Lord and servants of God. Israel’s priestly capacity will be recognized and accepted around the world, and the priests and people of Israel will eat of the wealth of the nations (60:1–22; 61:6; cf. Zech. 8:23). In other words, Gentile nations will serve Israel and bring their wealth to build up the nation because Jehovah will have sanctified Israel and put His sanctuary in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 14:2 Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD's land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

I doubt anyone who believes what Isaiah says has any knowledge at all of the history and culture of the time. Those Jews defeated no one, and that was long before Greece and Rome. In fact, I doubt anyone understands what Isaiah actually says.

But then, it seems some simply do not understand what archaeology has determined.

After all, why did the Jewish deity have to make a Christ of the Zarathustrian Cyrus in order to save his Chosen People?

Why did he not choose a Jew?

Then there is the little matter of the next destruction of our planet.

God clearly stated he never again would destroy his world.

How many Christians insist he will indeed, saying it will be by fire next time?

Am I wrong?

Seems not.

Isaiah 54: 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me:
for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth;
so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

Seems, too, I am right in saying God wants nothing of fellowship with man:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Never goes away...
posted Hide Post
quote:
How many Christians insist he will indeed, saying it will be by fire next time?

And in what time frame? Thousands of years? Millions? Billions?
 
Posts: 10072 | Location: Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-17-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Henry J:
quote:
How many Christians insist he will indeed, saying it will be by fire next time?

And in what time frame? Thousands of years? Millions? Billions?


Given how many insist our planet was created 6000 years ago, I rather imagine the concept of millions, never mind billions, of years will be beyond them.

2.20am, so before I make any more errors I'm off to bed.

See y'all.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
At least Christians are no longer murdering Christians, though the followers of Ish Milchama have more blood on their hands every single day of the year.

You do seem to delight in enumerating the failures of the Abrahamic religions.

Show me a religion that is fully free of bloodshed. Even those who practice Shintoism and Buddhism are far from free of it.

ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.

While there isn't a single line in the NT that even suggests the killing of unbelievers, those who are of a different interpretation, or even of other religions (the strongest admonition is to wipe the dust off your feet), there are certainly those unscrupulous politicians willing to twist anything towards political gain.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
I heard one Christian who stated that we should speak up and suggested a boycott. I had to smile to myself because I don't read comics, anyway, so what good would it do for me to boycott DC Comics?

I think that the best advice I heard was for Christians to pray for the two authors- that they would discover what the gospel is really all about and that Jesus did not fail in the mission that the Father gave him.


It does bring to question, for me anyway- do people nowadays really know what the good news about Jesus is, and what he did for us in his first coming?

Do they understand what the Bible says about Jesus' Second Coming? The ladies Bible study group that I am a part of is almost finished with the books of the OT, and it is very interesting how much is said about the actual physical rule of Messiah of the world, not just Israel.

Have never been into comics myself, so I guess my boycott is already well under way Smile   :)

IMHO, praying John 17:21 as a prelude to Matthew 6:9-13 covers most of the necessities of prayer. It puts God, the world, and the person praying, in the proper alignment and imposes God's will over all. I never assume my emotional will is the same as God's agape will. But that's just me as I have arrived in my understanding to this point.

You and I are not going to see eye-to-eye on what either the OT or NT says regarding Messiah as long as you are a literalist and I'm not. I do not see the OT verses, specified by certain theologies, as applying specifically Jesus Messiah. I see them applying to the Messiah (anointed one) specified in the context in which they were written. That they may also apply to Jesus is clear in certain NT verses, but that in no way even implies that they were written specifically about Jesus. Debate is no longer productive on this issue, imho.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Here to stay...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Isaiah 14:2 Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD's land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

I doubt anyone who believes what Isaiah says has any knowledge at all of the history and culture of the time. Those Jews defeated no one, and that was long before Greece and Rome. In fact, I doubt anyone understands what Isaiah actually says.

But then, it seems some simply do not understand what archaeology has determined.

After all, why did the Jewish deity have to make a Christ of the Zarathustrian Cyrus in order to save his Chosen People?

Why did he not choose a Jew?

Then there is the little matter of the next destruction of our planet.

God clearly stated he never again would destroy his world.

...

Seems, too, I am right in saying God wants nothing of fellowship with man:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Someone wanted to write a Homeric epic for the Jews and like with Homer, it would be a source of pride even though it's an incredibly embellished version of history borrowed from elsewhere. In the Gnostic sense there is nothing wrong with this; in the literal sense it's all wrong.

One can have something more like a few Tunguskas rather than Younger Dryas. Ice Age/Edenic/Golden Age cycles involve dusty areas of space where fragments of various sizes hang out. Channeling/prophecy at best is a probability thing so you kind of have to stay open. Sometimes when channeling the Judge, the Judge has to say something like too complex, you wouldn't understand. It's like if a young child asked a question about calculus. You still though can have a fellowship (Mirth!) with the other end of the channel.
 
Posts: 1149 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Allan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vicki:
Is it another topic change? Or is it related to the topic of the Canaanite invasion? Posting the Hebrew words for man of war is not very helpful. What is the context?[QUOTE]

Allan:
Your Bible tells you the Israelites supposedly left Egypt under the orders of their deity to exterminate a number of Canaanite tribes and you ask me the relevance of my statement that, at that very time, they were under the orders of a deity known as the Man of War and you ask me to explain the relevance of that?

Vicki:
The Israelites did not leave Egypt under orders of their deity to exterminate a number of Canaanite tribes. The exodus from Egypt was about God answering the cry of His people and delivering them from Egypt.

The Bible tells us in Exodus 1:13-14
They worked the Israelites ruthlessly and made their lives bitter with difficult labor in brick and mortar and in all kinds of fieldwork. They ruthlessly imposed all this work on them.

Exodus 3:7-8, 17
Then the LORD said, "I have observed the misery of My people in Egypt, and have heard them crying out because of their oppressors, and I know about their sufferings. I have come down to rescue them from the power of the Egyptians and to bring them from that land to a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey- the territory of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites...And I have promised you that I will bring you up from the misery of Egypt to the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perrizites, Hivites, and Jebusites- a land flowing with milk and honey.

Allan:
Beats me where you are coming from.
Man of War, exterminate, genocide, and you ask the context?

Vicki:
Context is very important in understanding verses in the Bible. Are you aware that ish milchama is used in other parts of the Bible as well? So, it was important to know how you were using the phrase.

As the Israelites were being pursued by the Pharaoh and His army, many of them panicked. They thought that they were going to die.

In Exodus 14:11
They said to Moses:"Is it because there are not graves in Egypt that you took us to die in the wilderness?"

His answer in Exodus 14:13-14
But Moses said to the people, "Don't be afraid. Stand firm and see the LORD's salvation He will provide for you today; for the Egyptians you see today, you will never see again. THE LORD WILL FIGHT FOR YOU; you must be quiet.

And of course we both know what the Bible says happened next( even if you don't happen to believe what it says). God did fight for His people, providing a way for them to cross in safety while the Egyptians were swept away. God delivered His people by His own hand. He is ish milchama, willing to fight for His people.

In Exodus 23:27-30, while the people are in the wilderness, God makes certain promises if His people remain faithful and obedient, concerning the land:
I will cause the people ahead of you to feel terror and throw into confusion all the nations you come to. I will make all your enemies turn their backs to you in retreat. I will send the hornet in front of you, and it will drive the Hivites, Canaanites, and Hittites away from you. I will not drive them out ahead of you in a single year; otherwise, the land would become deslolate, and wild animals would multiply against you I will drive them out little by little ahead of you until you have become numerous and take possession of the land.

Only three cities, along with all their inhabitants, were destroyed in the Canaanite invasion. Those cities are Jericho (Joshua 6) (except for Rahab and her family), Ai (Joshua 8), and Hazor (Joshua 11). The Israelites were instructed to destroy everything in Jericho, except for the silver, gold, bronze, and iron which were to go into the treasury. In Ai and Hazor, the Israelites were allowed to keep the captured livestock for themselves.

Other cities were conquered, but not burned, and all the people in those cities who chose not to flee before the Lord, were put to the sword.

The invasion was a combination of God fighting for His people and the Israelites obeying God, in varying degrees. The invasion was God's judgment against the Canaanites as well as the keeping of His promise to Abraham and to his descendants. At times God used His supernatural powers- such as on the walls of Jericho (Joshua 6), but the Israelites had to be faithful and obedient if they expected God to give them the victory.

According to Joshua 13-17, the Israelites did not drive out all of the peoples and capture all the cities that were in their assigned territories.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Your reluctance is understandable. After all, only you can see the relevance of Paul's trip to Damascus, which I have shown was a codename for Qumran, to my question of Christians' adoption of a proven Latin translation for the Hebrew meaning venus as Morning Star.


Vicki:
You may advanced and supported the idea that in Qumran the use of "Damascus" as a code word for their place. But you have not proven that Luke used the word "Damascus" as a code name when he wrote the book of Acts.

As for the Latin translation for "morning Star"- all I can say is, "so what"? The devil had an honored position at one time. The Latin translation happens to be morning star. People decided to use Lucifer as another name for the devil. People have come up with a lot of names for the devil. I'm sure you can think of some names the English had for him, too.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vicki:
Allan, you have not addressed the point I brought out.
The books of the prophets are filled with specific warnings that Israel, Judah will be conquered if they do not repent.
These very writings, if we go with your view that prophets interpreted the past and wrote after the exile occurred, explain in vivid detail to the people why they were conquered- they were corrupt, committed idolatry, oppressed the poor, etc.
With such specific charges written in the books of the prophets, why would the priests have written the book of Job to explain their defeat, as you claim? The connection between what is written in Job and what happened to Israel and her exile, is not there.


Allan:
Seems you are still confused.

Vicki:
I'm not confused. I'm trying to get you to see that the purpose for the book of Job was not what you said it was.
You overlook this point of mine every time, even though you re-post it when you "try again".

Allan:
Let me try again.

Prophets also explain the past, as they did with David's plague.

Vicki:
I believe that you have the wrong literary genre. The account of David's plague is found in books of history, not in the books of the prophets.

And, I disagree with your statement that the prophets wrote their books to explain the past. That doesn't even make sense, considering that many of the prophets claimed that their warnings were about the future and they called for people to repent, so that God would relent in His judgment.
And there were times when God relented in His judgment for awhile, such as was the case when Assyria's army was outside the walls of Jerusalem when Hezekiah was king.

The people would not have objected to the prophets so vigorously had the prophets just been spinning stories and putting words in God's mouth. The people were not fooled into thinking that the prophets wrote Scripture, the very words of God for them to live by and hope by.

They saw God's words, spoken through His prophets (some of which their people killed), actually come true. They lived on the promises God made to the people who would be faithful to Him. He was their hiding place during the times of suffering. This remnant believed what God said- that the righteous live by faith. (Habakkuk 2:4) They weren't hoodwinked by clever men who knew how to spin a tale.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Now, since you do not seem to be aware of what happened to Judaism between the exile and the rise of Hezekiah and Josiah, I'll see if I can word this differently.The exiled Jews, the defeated country's elite, not the common serfs, argued in Babylon with their priests that they had indeed followed every word of God's commands, yet here they were, defeated and exiled by the men of Marduk.They demanded an explanation, insisting they were not corrupt, did not commit idolatry, oppress the poor, etc.The priests were flummoxed, so they adopted and adapted this much older Sumerian/Babylonian mythology of a man who said the same thing to his God. He said he had followed all that was asked of him, yet his life was a mess.That was an original mythology explaining why bad things happen to good people.Having no answer, the priests changed the subject (sound familiar?). Instead, they said the Jews, like Job, had no right to question the deity who had created everything. Hope this helps.


Vicki:
That is pretty creative and it isn't based on what the Bible says. But I can see that you are convinced that it is true. Wow! They must have been amazing creative writers, even though you claim they borrowed the mythology. They also would have to have been downright evil men who could write with a straight face, "Thus says the Lord", as well as not believing in the God they wrote about in the first place in order to be able to put words in God's mouth like that and not fear that He would do something about it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
I suggest you find someone far better qualified than Charles Wesley, who died in 1788. Especially since, as was proper in his time, he actually believed in angels, devils and demons.


Vicki:
The logic remains the same, no matter what era Charles Wesley lived and died. Many of us believe that angels, the devil and demons exist, today. It isn't so hard to do so, if one takes what the Bible says, literally.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
quote:Vicki:Their exercise is flawed. There are different Hebrew definitions for "Elohim". None of them come even close to meaning "Shining Ones", in English. In order to come up with "Shining Ones", they have to go to other middle eastern languages and import the meaning. Sources, please.


I was using the website you gave as my source for their choice of "Shining Ones" as an English translation for the Hebrew word, Elohim.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Isaiah 14:2 Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD's land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors. I doubt anyone who believes what Isaiah says has any knowledge at all of the history and culture of the time. Those Jews defeated no one, and that was long before Greece and Rome. In fact, I doubt anyone understands what Isaiah actually says.


Vicki:
This prophecy has not happened, yet. There are many like it in the various books of the Prophets. It will happen. If you understood that the books of the Prophets are not all about explaining the past, you would better understand what this passage is saying.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Then there is the little matter of the next destruction of our planet.God clearly stated he never again would destroy his world.How many Christians insist he will indeed, saying it will be by fire next time?Am I wrong?Seems not.Isaiah 54: 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me:for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth;so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.


Vicki:
God promised not to destroy the earth by water.

Keep in mind that God has provided us with Messiah who died for our sins so that we may have fellowship with Him and be a part of His Kingdom which is coming. He loves us that much. He wants us to seek Him while we still can. He wants us to reconcile with Him.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Seems, too, I am right in saying God wants nothing of fellowship with man:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Vicki: Those verses show how set apart from us that God is. There is none like Him. Yet, He calls us to seek Him.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the LORD all you humble of the earth, who carry out what He commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be concealed on the day of the LORD's anger.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Henry J:
quote:
How many Christians insist he will indeed, saying it will be by fire next time?

And in what time frame? Thousands of years? Millions? Billions?


Vicki:
We don't know the time frame, so we go about our Father's business...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Settling in...
posted Hide Post
quote:
MHO, praying John 17:21 as a prelude to Matthew 6:9-13 covers most of the necessities of prayer. It puts God, the world, and the person praying, in the proper alignment and imposes God's will over all. I never assume my emotional will is the same as God's agape will. But that's just me as I have arrived in my understanding to this point.


Vicki:
That sounds wise, especially praying for God's will.


Tuesday, we studied the book of Habakkuk. It is a little different than the other books of the Prophets, in that Habakkuk isn't delivering a word from the Lord. He is having a conversation with God. He starts out in chapter 1 asking how could God allow all the wickedness that Habakkuk is seeing in Judah? He is calling on God to bring judgment against all the violence and oppression. Then God answers him by saying that He is going to bring judgment- He will send the Babylonians to conquer Judah. Habakkuk's next question to God is how can He use a people more evil than Judah to exercise His judgment? God's reply is that he will judge Babylon, and one can surmise any tyrant, in His timing. I love Habakkuk's hymn in chapter 3, especially the last two verses. It is Habakkuk's affirmation of faith in God:

Though the fig tree does not bud and there is no fruit on the vines, though the olive crop fails and the fields produce no food, though there are no sheep in the pen and no cattle in the stalls, yet I will triumph in Yahweh; I will rejoice in the God of my salvation! Yahweh my Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like those of a deer and enables me to walk on mountain heights!

Because I take this passage literally, I can be confident that God is my strength and my salvation, no matter what is going on in the world around me. Habakkuk wasn't being a creative writer. He was actually talking to God and God was answering him. Even though God is holy and His thoughts are not like ours. God didn't chastise Habakkuk for questioning Him, at all. God answered him and gave Habakkuk strength and hope.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Show me a religion that is fully free of bloodshed. Even those who practice Shintoism and Buddhism are far from free of it.


Indian States before the Moguls and the Raj most certainly went to war with each other, and temples were seen as a great source of loot.

However, I haven't yet found any real indications that Hindus went to war just to kill Hindus, Buddhists going to war just to kill Buddhists, Hindus and Buddhists killing each other on religious grounds.

quote:
ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.
While there isn't a single line in the NT that even suggests the killing of unbelievers, those who are of a different interpretation, or even of other religions (the strongest admonition is to wipe the dust off your feet), there are certainly those unscrupulous politicians willing to twist anything towards political gain.


Condemning all humans for their sins is not my cup of tea. Have seen far too much of humans giving up their own lives for the sake of others, have seen far too much of the greatness within humans to condemn them all in this way.

Agree completely, naturally, with you on politics.

But then, of course, I see religion and politics as potentially destructive subsets of the infinitely more valuable mythology, don't I Wink   ;)
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
However, I haven't yet found any real indications that Hindus went to war just to kill Hindus, Buddhists going to war just to kill Buddhists, Hindus and Buddhists killing each other on religious grounds.


Why are you limiting it strictly to warring within the religion?

Violent As Any Other Religion

Surprised When Buddhists are Violent


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Someone wanted to write a Homeric epic for the Jews and like with Homer, it would be a source of pride even though it's an incredibly embellished version of history borrowed from elsewhere. In the Gnostic sense there is nothing wrong with this; in the literal sense it's all wrong.


Last year there was a major hassle when the national Australian cricket team cheated in a Test match against South Africa. The three involved, including the captain, are paying dearly for their sins.

When it first happened I thought this would be an ideal way to create a mythology to teach youngsters that cricket is one sport where cheating is totally unacceptable.

We saw the three offenders showing deep personal regret on news programs, but now we do indeed have that mythology, the former captain in a paid advert speaking directly to youngsters playing the game, telling them that cheating comes at great personal cost.

Never thought to look for it before, however I am now seeing a delightful number of references to mythology in UK TV dramas. Some are integral to the plot, others clever asides. Watching The Hobbit not long after reading a chapter of The White Goddess, , I reckon one of Gollum's challenging riddles was broadly based on a riddle of Taliesin, something Tolkien would have well known.

On the broader scale, I'm wondering if some, at least, of what is contained in the great mysteries is now out of date.

We no longer are closely connected to Nature, except for those actually farming. For most, sowing and harvesting are irrelevant; the supermarkets take care of that.

Much of the Zodiac had to do with knowing when to plant, just as the helical rising of Sirius told Egyptians to expect the Nile flood.

We are, as I understand it, entering what was once a vitally important Age of the Zodiac but, apart from our human pollution, I'm wondering just what relevance this now has to our hi-tech civilisation.

Orion may rule, but what effect will this have on us?
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Why are you limiting it strictly to warring within the religion?
Violent As Any Other Religion
Surprised When Buddhists are Violent


You should know me well enough not to need asking that.

Your Thai reference is straight politics, the Ish Milacham Islam has to be fought to protect the indigenous people from an imported invading religion.

Politics, too, is glaringly obvious in Myanmar. Apart from “modern” Buddhists protecting themselves against infidel Islam, we have, in addition to the important influence of Britain:

It is important to emphasize that the current violence against the Rohingya is not a straightforwardly “religious” matter. Myanmar’s long history of exclusion and violence toward the Rohingya has typically been framed by the question of who counts as a legitimate ethnic minority and who is instead to be judged a foreigner (and thus an illegal migrant). It is also significant that the contemporary nation-state of Myanmar represents the blending of the former military dictatorship and the democratically elected National League of Democracy led by Aung San Suu Kyi; in this hybrid form of government, the mechanisms and influence of civil society and public opinion are relatively new.
...Similarly, as the case of Myanmar shows, the colonial origins of the modern secular state have, in some ways, insidiously fostered the hardening of religious identities.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...lence-tolerance.html
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
I was using the website you gave as my source for their choice of "Shining Ones" as an English translation for the Hebrew word, Elohim.


Then try this one:

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.o...ual-warfare-pt03.htm
Let's look at the text in Genesis 3:1, "Serpent" here is from the Hebrew word nachash, which, according to Hebrew scholar Michael Heiser, is most likely a triple entendre, which is a word or phrase that has three different meanings at once. The root of nachash is (noon, het and sheen), which is the basis for a noun, a verb and an adjective in Hebrew. If you take nachash as pointing to the noun, the word here would mean: "serpent". This is a valid translation, but you must keep in mind that "serpent" is not a member of the animal kingdom. If you were to take it as a verb, it would mean: "deceiver" or "diviner." So nachash could imply a "deceiver." This option also fits the story. As an adjective it would mean: "bronze," or "the shining one." In our text it is "ha nachash" (the Shining one). Luminosity is a characteristic of a divine being in the Hebrew Bible and in the ANE texts, luminosity is not the characteristic of an animal or a man. This is a divine being, not an animal or man. Would Eve carry on a conversation with a snake? I don't think so, but she would talk to a divine being. Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of God, they were very familiar with these divine beings. Look at Isaiah 6: In the year of King Uzziah's death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. Isaiah 6:1-2 NASB
The word "seraphim" here mean: "the shining" or "blazing ones." But the Hebrew saraph as a noun means: "serpent." What we have here is a divine throne room and a throne room guardian (saraph).

Not often I see a Christian source being so specific on the complications involved in translating ancient Hebrew into modern English.

Nor do I often see any real understanding of just how language can be used by the experts in a tongue.

Sometimes wonder how the average viewer in the US finds UK dramas. I do know that many Brits were horrified at what they saw as a mockery when US producers rewrote British scripts into the US vernacular. All the subtleties were lost.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata       Page: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ... 37 
 

    Aantares    Aantares BB  Hop To Forum Categories  Your Lifestyle & Culture  Hop To Forums  Religion & Spirituality    Biblical Scholar: Dont take Bible literally

© 2003-2020 Aantares Online LLC. All Rights Reserved.