Aantares    Aantares BB  Hop To Forum Categories  Your Lifestyle & Culture  Hop To Forums  Religion & Spirituality    Pick And Choose Tendencies
Go To
Post
Search BB
Notify Me
TOS/Tools/Smilies
Reply
  
Pick And Choose Tendencies
 Login/Register
 
Forum Host
Picture of JKennedy
Posted
Cheating/Adultery. You don’t have to be “religious” to know cheating on your wife/husband/fiancé/boyfriend/girlfriend is flat out wrong. Sadly that bible book has been, and remains a “pick and choose” tool used by so-called “religious” people. Ignore what you do not like yet quote the parts you agree with. Live by this part yet skip over or “interpret” inconvenient, unpleasant things.

Case in point, adultery. Seemingly there is no getting around this issue for people who “live” by the bible, but get around it they do. The book says a certain group should be put to death but those who often quote that part pay no attention to the part that says adulterers should be put to death. That said, this book offers tremendous comfort and guidance to many.

quote:





New International Version (©1984)





http://bible.cc/leviticus/20-10.htm



If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.



Luke 16:18

18 Everyone who divorces his wife, and marries another, commits adultery. He who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.



…there are many verses in the Bible on adultery, probably the most well known one is found in the Ten Commandments, where it says: "You shall not commit adultery.







http://www.infidelityassistanc...elity_statistics.php

quote:


Infidelity StatisticsIt's tough to get a handle on how many of us are having affairs, given the inherent secrecy.



-22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.

-14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.

-Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful.

-70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.

-5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the 1997.

-22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past.

-90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.

-50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man", according to a Time-CNN poll.

-61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion.

-17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.

Source: Associated Press



-One in 10 respondents said they are addicted to sex and the Internet, according to an online survey of 38,000 Internet users. MSNBC.com and Dr. Alvin Cooper

-Results show that internet users devote three hours each week to online sexual exploits. Twenty-five percent have felt that they lost control of their Internet sexual exploits at least once or that the activity caused problems in their lives. MSNBC.com and Dr. Alvin Cooper

-Up to 37% of men and 22% of women admit to having affairs. Researchers think the vast majority of the millions of people who visit chat rooms, have multiple "special friends”. Dr. Bob Lanier, askbob.com

-Only 46% of men believe that online affairs are adultery. DivorceMag

-80% think it's Ok to talk with a stranger identified as the opposite sex. 75% thinks it's ok to visit an adult site.

-About 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an affair at some point in some marriage "Monogamy Myth", Therapist Peggy Vaugn





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John

...it appeares no other thing
to mee, then a foule and pestilent congregation of vapours.
What a piece of worke is a man!

 
Posts: 4553 | Location: New England | Mbr Since: 09-22-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Devoted...
Posted Hide Post
Eleventh commandment: Thou shalt not get caught.

Henry
 
Posts: 5363 | Location: Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-17-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Forum Host
Picture of CompGuy
Posted Hide Post
You seem to be railing about hypocrisy. How about the basic hypocrisy of choosing which Biblical sins to be concerned about. Adultery must be a big one for you. But what about these others, for example:

Thou shalt kill anyone who works on Sunday. (Exodus 35:2)
Women shalt not teach, nor hold authority positions over men. (1 Timothy 2:11-15)
Crippled people, dwarves, those with flat noses or damaged testicles must stay away from the altar. (Leviticus 21:18-20)
Thou shalt not wear clothes of mixed fibers. (Leviticus 19:19)
A woman’s period is disgusting and unclean and anyone who comes near her is guilty of sin.
Thou shalt inflict corporal punishment on your children. (Proverbs 13-29)
Thou shalt not be disrespectful to thy parents, lest ye be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)
Thou shalt not eat pork, shrimp, lobster, or any shellfish. (Leviticus 11:7-12)

I assume you consider these sins either not sins or minor sins compared with adultery. If so, isn't that itself an example of pick and choose tendencies?

Jeff
 
Posts: 7085 | Location: US | Mbr Since: 10-12-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Enthusiast...
Picture of Stephen
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Thou shalt kill anyone who works on Sunday. (Exodus 35:2)

The Sabbath, not "Sunday". Wink   ;)
--
Stephen
 
Posts: 3104 | Location: North Carolina, USA | Mbr Since: 10-21-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Forum Host
Picture of CompGuy
Posted Hide Post
Yes, the Sabbath. I was lazy and found this page:
http://etogre.com/top-10-most-...ns-in-the-bible/110/
and just copied/pasted. The pertinent paragraph reads:

quote:
Thou shalt kill anyone who works on Sunday. (Exodus 35:2)

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

I know this one seems kind of foul. After all in today’s trying times where you have to work three minimum wage jobs to keep above the poverty line, at least half the world’s population is guilty of this one. And we are just as guilty of sin, because this verse in the bible explicitly states that anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death. I guess it’s time to bring Sharia law to Christianity, so we can cleanse the world of these wicked people who DARE to insult God like this!

My point remains valid, of course. Why is adultery (or homosexuality) a more important sin than these other sins for so many?

I could argue with the main premise--that adultery is obviously wrong. There are open marriages. There are nuances--is a BJ adultery? Is "cheating on a girlfriend" always adultery if neither party is married? What if there's no committed relationship? And so forth and so on...

Jeff
 
Posts: 7085 | Location: US | Mbr Since: 10-12-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steadfast...
Picture of Koka
Posted Hide Post
Have you ever noticed that people are most angry about what they themselves have already done? Bingo! Adultery would be it. They simply haven't forgiven themselves.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Koka
"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
 
Posts: 16083 | Location: God's Country, Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-08-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Forum Host
Picture of JKennedy
Posted Hide Post
Such minds we have here Flame Big   :flame2: The point was and is that people with many failings themselves, who adhere to the bible, who claim to go by that book often pick and choose from it; and usually to criticize another person or group.

Using promiscuity and adultery seemed like sure attention getters...got yours didn't it Cool   :cool:.

And again, the bible remains a tremendous source or wisdom, help and comfort to many people. Including hypocrites.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John

...it appeares no other thing
to mee, then a foule and pestilent congregation of vapours.
What a piece of worke is a man!

 
Posts: 4553 | Location: New England | Mbr Since: 09-22-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Forum Host
Picture of Sean
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Thou shalt not wear clothes of mixed fibers.—Leviticus 19:19)

     Evidently the Bible is more a Source Book than a User's Manual. I have six pairs of socks made of mixed polypropylene, nylon and spandex. That makes me a week-day sinner, but on Sabbaths I shall switch to pure wool or cotton.
     That system would not work for an adulterer. To return to home and hearth after a six days graze in other pastures would be to risk a fatal beating-up by broom.
Seán
 
Posts: 4226 | Location: Albuquerque, NM | Mbr Since: 09-22-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steadfast...
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JKennedy:
Such minds we have here Flame Big   :flame2: The point was and is that people with many failings themselves, who adhere to the bible, who claim to go by that book often pick and choose from it; and usually to criticize another person or group.

Using promiscuity and adultery seemed like sure attention getters...got yours didn't it Cool   :cool:.

And again, the bible remains a tremendous source or wisdom, help and comfort to many people. Including hypocrites.

Everyone,

Damn, what happened to my post? It was a whole lot more than a quote of John's lead note and I spent quite a bit of time on it. I had a hard time getting it posted for some unknown reason--Aantares was malfunctioning on me. Now I see that the only thing that actually got posted was the quoted part, not the part I wrote or the link I posted. Please consider this a temporary "place-holder" note and explanation while I try to reconstruct my earlier post.

--Linda


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
― Frank Zappa
 
Posts: 18257 | Location: So. Calif., USA | Mbr Since: 03-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Enthusiast...
Posted Hide Post
ALL,

John started this thread by talking about adultery. In general, one of the biggest marketing tools of any church is convincing people that they are the "one true and only" and then presenting their menu of rights and wrongs. And, yes, some churches can even break up otherwise happy marriages by claiming that the couple is living in adultery (if, for example one partner was previously married with a living ex-spouse.)

Marketing changes over time. Today in the Roman Catholic Church, for example, divorce and remarriage is pretty mundane. Pay out a few hundred dollars, wait a few months, get an annulment, then remarry. Same thing on birth control. "Don't ask, don't tell."

So pick and choose has to be looked at from a marketing standpoint as much as anything.

Regards,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Glenn
 
Posts: 3403 | Location: Arizona USA | Mbr Since: 10-17-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steadfast...
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JKennedy:
Such minds we have here Flame Big   :flame2: The point was and is that people with many failings themselves, who adhere to the bible, who claim to go by that book often pick and choose from it; and usually to criticize another person or group.

Using promiscuity and adultery seemed like sure attention getters...got yours didn't it Cool   :cool:.
]
And again, the bible remains a trem]endous source or wisdom, help and comfort to many people. Including hypocrites.

John and everyone,

Okay, I'm going to try this one again. I thought of this topic when I read this article on the Care2 website this morning. While the article is about sex education and this topic focuses on adultery, we see the same phenomenon at work in both cases, namely hypocrisy. I could especially relate to this comment in the thread following the main article:
quote:
One thing.......adults can't maintain abstinence in having affairs or going to prostitutes.......and they are supposedly more able to handle their hormones and feelings and self control because they have "grown" up.....

how can we expect children who have newly surging hormones without the adult mind and who are still confused as to whether or not they are adults or children (and they really are both at the same time ) to do what many adults with supposedly adults minds can't do......

In fundamentalist America i am sure there are tons of teenage pregnancy like Sarah Palin's daughter and yet they are the ones advocating abstinence....if they really were to reflect and look at this would they not try to find another avenue of helping our kids? But this is what happens when people are so closed minded.....

But to compromise and satisfy everyone we need a program that includes abstinence as one of the options in addition to condoms. Because really these children are too young to be having sex. They are not capable of understanding what it is all about. they are still part child and part adult. If they must have sex then protective sex must be taught but abstinence must be included as an option but more as an emotional protection.

Over and over again for about the last four decades, I've been struck by this particular phenomenon and never been able to make any sense out of it. There is really no difference between the sexual behavior of fundamentalists and other Americans, except that if anything fundies are even MORE out of control and immature in their behavior than others. The big difference is in what they SAY, and in particular what they insist on teaching not only their own kids, but other people's kids too, even in the public schools. Never mind about what they actually do, though--Sarah Palin and her dysfunctional family come to mind in this context.

We all know what a total disaster "abstinance-only" sex education has been. The Care2 article is about a newer version called "abstinance plus" sex education, which is really just a euphemism for comprehensive sex education, which includes accurate information about birth control. But I guess they have to get the word "abstinance" in there somehow to keep the fundies happy, or at least not too unhappy.

I'll never understand why, though. I think it's long past time to stop giving lip service to a code of sexual behavior none of us actually subscribes to. Was there some earthly reason I would try to impose my grandmother's code of sexual morality on my daughter, after I rejected it for myself years before I had a daughter? That's just crazy. I would never have done it, and would not have wanted her school doing that to her either. Especially not if they lied in their attempts to scare the kids into staying "pure."

--Linda


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
― Frank Zappa
 
Posts: 18257 | Location: So. Calif., USA | Mbr Since: 03-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steadfast...
Picture of Koka
Posted Hide Post
Linda, I love your last post. It's so filled with the truth. I would NEVER have imposed other peoples values upon my children, never, never, never. I always advised them to think and act for themselves, using their own values and knowledge to arrive at their decisions. I think faith (NOT religion) is such a very personal thing, perhaps the most personal of all our dealings. It should be practiced in just that way, as a personal faith, and NOT imposed upon others. We don't need to read volumes to arrive at our faith, we merely have to seek and it will come to us.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Koka
"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
 
Posts: 16083 | Location: God's Country, Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-08-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steadfast...
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Koka:
Linda, I love your last post. It's so filled with the truth. I would NEVER have imposed other peoples values upon my children, never, never, never. I always advised them to think and act for themselves, using their own values and knowledge to arrive at their decisions. I think faith (NOT religion) is such a very personal thing, perhaps the most personal of all our dealings. It should be practiced in just that way, as a personal faith, and NOT imposed upon others. We don't need to read volumes to arrive at our faith, we merely have to seek and it will come to us.

Koka,

Thanks...I'm glad you see my point. I don't have a whole lot to add to what you said about faith because I agree with it 100%. That said, though--I will have more to add to this topic later on when I have a little more time, because the biblical definition of adultery, and the one still in effect in most countries where the influence of the "religions of the book" is stronger than it is here in America, is a very sexist definition and not the same as the one John was going by in his lead note. That is to say, the term adultery applied only when a married woman was involved. It didn't apply to men and women equally. A married man could pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted, as long as the woman he was messing around with didn't "belong" to another man. It's one more manifestation of the infamous double standard.

It does make some kind of sense when you understand that ancient Israel was a polygamous society. By the time the Bible actually came to be written polygamy had almost died out, but Jacob had two wives and two concubines who were all the mothers of his children, as did many of the other biblical figures. So the commandments evolved in a culture where polygamy was part of the historical memory, even if it was no longer actual practice--or very rarely anyway.

By "religions of the book" I mean Christianity, Judaism and Islam, of course. I figure everyone knows that anyway, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

--Linda


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
― Frank Zappa
 
Posts: 18257 | Location: So. Calif., USA | Mbr Since: 03-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steadfast...
Picture of Koka
Posted Hide Post
Thank you Linda, I figured we saw it in much the same way. BTW, I don't take the Bible and Ancient Israel for my guidelines - I go straight to the Master.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Koka
"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
 
Posts: 16083 | Location: God's Country, Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-08-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steadfast...
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Koka:
Thank you Linda, I figured we saw it in much the same way. BTW, I don't take the Bible and Ancient Israel for my guidelines - I go straight to the Master.

Koka,

I don't take them as my guidelines either, obviously. I go straight to the Goddess who says: "All acts of love and pleasure are My rituals." That's one of the big positives of a Pagan orientation, of course. It wipes away all lingering traces of the double standard in one fell swoop, as well as any notion that sex and spirituality are opposed to each other. I discovered early on that the opposite is true--they are actually very closely connected.

Which is NOT to say that "anything goes"! There are always the feelings of other people to consider, and using or abusing others--children especially--is always wrong. But then I don't need to tell you that!

--Linda


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
― Frank Zappa
 
Posts: 18257 | Location: So. Calif., USA | Mbr Since: 03-12-2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steadfast...
Picture of Koka
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Which is NOT to say that "anything goes"! There are always the feelings of other people to consider, and using or abusing others--children especially--is always wrong. But then I don't need to tell you that!



Linda, if you're going straight to the Goddess/Master, then you are given that knowing.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Koka
"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
 
Posts: 16083 | Location: God's Country, Colorado | Mbr Since: 10-08-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Coming along...
Posted Hide Post
Ow, could somebody please pull the twin swords out of my chest. So much hypocrisy and it hurts so many people. Its upsetting. Ow, ow, ow.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The sun now rose upon the right: Out of the sea came he, Still hid in mist, and on the left Went down into the sea.

 
Posts: 191 | Location: Raleigh NC USA | Mbr Since: 11-14-2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

    Aantares    Aantares BB  Hop To Forum Categories  Your Lifestyle & Culture  Hop To Forums  Religion & Spirituality    Pick And Choose Tendencies

© 2003-2012 Aantares Online LLC. All Rights Reserved.