Aantares Aantares BB Your Lifestyle & Culture Religion & Spirituality Hell Has Officially Frozen Over! Page: 1 2
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Steadfast... |
The World's First Female Orthodox "Rabbah"
This is from the Tikkun blog. I posted my first-ever comment there after I read it: "Wonderful news!" That's pretty much the limit of my coherency under the circumstances, and I don't think I can do much better now. Please note that she STILL can't be counted in a minyan (quorum) or testify in a rabbinical court. Now excuse me while I attempt to pick myself up off the floor. --Linda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” ― Frank Zappa |
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Forum Host |
Asherah awakens to a new dawning!
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Steadfast... |
 Okay, now for the BIG $64,000 question: When is the RCC gonna break down and start ordaining women? And married men, while they're at it? For years I had this running bet with myself as to which of the male chauvinist holdouts would be the first to break down, Orthodox Judaism or the Roman Catholic Church. Only problem is, I didn't know which side to bet on! Now I know. So how many more years is it gonna take the OTHER holdouts? I guess it will be interesting to see what kind of new excuse they come up with now. --Linda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” ― Frank Zappa |
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Forum Host |
There have been stirrings but the Vatican demurs. Seán |
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Enthusiast... |
Linda, you asked,
They are already ordaining married men. I do not know the percentage, but a man already married can be ordained such as an Episcopalian who jumps ship. Also there is the Eastern rite that Deacon Ed belongs to (I think I am correct here about Deacon Ed) that will ordain married men. As for women, it may be a while before it is done officially. I do recall a Catholic Mass I attended a while back and everyone involved (the readers etc.) were women except for the priest himself. I do think it is only a matter of time. Regards, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Glenn |
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Steadfast... |
Sean,
This statement is from your link:
Ummm...no is he is NOT "in full communion with the pope"! Maybe he WAS (past tense), but after he laid hands on the first woman to consecrate her a bishop, he incurred an automatic excommunication. In fact, it probably happened when he laid hands on the first woman to ordain her to the priesthood. I happen to know how these things work, and it says so right at the link anyway: "Roman Catholic Womenpriests reject the penalty of excommunication issued by the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith on May 29, 2008 stating that the women priests and the bishops who ordain them would be excommunicated latae sententiae.” So welcome to the wonderful world of episcopi vagantes guys and girls! You'll find it isn't so bad being excommunicated once you get used to it. There's a lot more freedom on the wrong side of the ecclesiastical blanket, as some of us have known for a while now. --Linda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” ― Frank Zappa |
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Regular... |
My parish when I lived in New York had female alter servers before they were legal. Nuns can say mass when there's no Priest around, they just call it a Eucharistic Service. They just have to use already blessed hosts which means it's not any different really. The big real difference is the lack of becoming a pastor and higher and there usually are Priests or Deacons around. They messed up. The gods and clergy are too male (and the gods and Pope are too singular too).
-- John G. |
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Regular... |
and shhhh everybody hide and then yell happy birthday to Linda...
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Enthusiast... |
ALL,
Linda is turning big 40!!. Regards, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Glenn |
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Coming along... |
Happy Birthday!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The sun now rose upon the right: Out of the sea came he, Still hid in mist, and on the left Went down into the sea. |
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Forum Host |
Linda,
You asked when the Roman Church would break down and start ordaining women. I pointed out that it was already breaking down in the sense that women have been so ordained in defiance of ecclesiastical law. If you meant to ask when the Church would amend its laws to allow women to serve as priests, I can offer you no answer. I find no good reason for excluding women, neither do I sense a disposition among the hierarchy to change the status quo. I think a schism is inevitable, with the new group modifying church law to allow women to participate at every level. If the schismatic group grows large and powerful enough, it may eventually absorb the parent church. Seán |
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Steadfast... |
John, No, it's very different because they can't say the consecration, which is the heart of the service. Without that it isn't a Eucharist. The Church uses the very odd (and increasingly hollow-sounding) argument that women can't say the consecration because Jesus was a male, and the priest officiating stands in his place and in effect speaks for him. But if Jesus is taken as the embodiment of the second person of the Trinity, that is to say an aspect of God, then they are saying that male human beings are somehow more in the image of God than female human beings. I'm sure they would disavow that, but in effect that's exactly what they ARE saying. It's a bogus, hollow and sexist argument. For the record: In the Gnostic Eucharist in which I participated, it was with the clear understanding that we were re-enacting the "sacrifice" that took place at the creation of the world, in which the One became the Many. In that context it's irrelevant whether Jesus of Nazareth ever existed or not, although he is always spoken of as though he existed, since he is the central figure in the Gnostic Gospels. And of course he is revered as a great teacher. If it had been otherwise I could not have participated, because there would have been a conflict of interest with my Jewish background and my personal beliefs. --Linda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” ― Frank Zappa |
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Forum Host |
Linda, Humans are to God as pixels are to picture. Boy pixels are blue and girl pixels are pink and that's the only difference. Everyone should know that. Seán |
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Regular... |
Linda, that's kind of what I was trying to get at by minimizing the consecrating of the host, even most Protestants just take it as a re-enactment. Catholic-wise it's certainly part of the big everything's too male mess up. Cs-wise, Jesus was simply the last person to be "christed", the first being a woman. Jesus also supposedly had some afterlife mission (as did Moses and others). The Trinity is kind of a messed up version of the Triple Goddess, a cyclical time symbolism (that's in the Enneagram too). -- John G. |
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Steadfast... |
Sean,  You're right...everyone *should* know that, but unfortunately not everyone does!--Linda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” ― Frank Zappa |
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Forum Host |
Does God know that? The Holy Bible says women are property, that Eve was created from a rib of Adam, that women can be bought and sold and traded. Women are barely human according to the Bible. And the Bible, being the eternal definitive unchanging word of God, is the authority, isn't it? Heathens. Jeff |
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Forum Host |
Jeff, You are falling behind in your reading. In the New Testament I think God says women are pretty much OK if, when in church, they keep their mouths shut and wear some kind of hat. I don't recall the details. Seán, the Mollifier |
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Coming along... |
I don't think the Holy Bible says that woman have to be property. In a time where women were already considered property the laws which we read in the Bible gave them rights, such as privacy and divorce. In the minds of many men, women are and should be property. These are natural, typical attitudes that men have all over the world, for various reasons. A lot of men & but also women believe it. It is silly to assume that society can never be that way again. It shouldn't, but it easily could. With society enlightened as it is right now, we are able to see the principle of freedom behind the Bible's laws for women as well as their real value as equals. Its all good!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The sun now rose upon the right: Out of the sea came he, Still hid in mist, and on the left Went down into the sea. |
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Forum Host |
What goes around comes around, I've heard. What if men become someday the properties of women? Oh, the horror! Will they sell us cheaper by the dozen?
Seán, in Perturbation |
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Coming along... |
*L* The funny thing is that as a group they do own us. Its just that there is a generational delay. Women actually do control the world but do not quite realize it or something. Probably they never will, because we men are pretty smooth. Yeah, we're smooth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The sun now rose upon the right: Out of the sea came he, Still hid in mist, and on the left Went down into the sea. |
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Forum Host |
Think again. http://www.religioustolerance.org/ofe_bibl.htm Partial quote:
Or see: http://www.atheistfoundation.o...articles/women-bible Jeff |
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OK Jeff,
You win. After reading Women in the Bible no room is left for anything but shock and rage. As a history of evil times it may be useful, but why do people allow the Bible in their homes? Seán |
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Coming along... |
Sean, that site is a little off the subject. Their focus is against fundamentalists, and they understandably overlook the real source of the inequality. Men cement women into inferior status day to day and all the time. It is naturally the way that men behave, and many women are naturally very submissive to their own detriment. The Bible cannot 'Cement womens inferior status'. People can argue against belief in God, but they can't blame the inequalities on belief in God. At the root women and men have serious incompatibility issues. It is hard for any group of people to realize that women and men should have equal rights. Its not because they have Bibles or Korans. If there were no Bibles, then the fundamentalists would simply point to history or some other factoid. How many times have I heard atheists talk about upgrading their girlfriends? You can't blame civil inequalities on a history book, books of beliefs, or whatever.
I never suggested that we should try to outlaw sex or codify people's personal lives. We shouldn't legislate the modern world to be like the old one. At the same time we should also not demonize our own history, thinking that it will spur us forward. Demonizing history just keeps us sitting still, thinking about how awesome we are. The same forces that enslaved women and blacks in the past are still at work among us today, and those same forces still have to be kept actively at bay. They are part of us. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The sun now rose upon the right: Out of the sea came he, Still hid in mist, and on the left Went down into the sea. |
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Forum Host |
También, That seems true enough, but it does not explain why such teachings are tolerated in the churches of our time. Are you saying our religious leaders endorse these abominations? Seán |
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Coming along... |
Are you asking why do churches have only male priests? Its for historical reasons that are no longer remembered. I'm guessing its because of male/female psychology. In the ancient world female teenagers were easily manipulated, captured, owned. (They still are easily exploited to this day.) Men and women were somewhat different in this respect, so women were seen as easy. That is probably the main reason why most things were run by men, why it says the serpent beguiled Eve but not Adam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The sun now rose upon the right: Out of the sea came he, Still hid in mist, and on the left Went down into the sea. |
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