quote:

Originally posted by CompGuy:

quote:

Got another date for you, which has to be IT

I assume IT will not be today, right? I'd hate for IT to ruin your picnic.

Haven't there been many dates that had to be IT which weren't?

Discussions of picnics and family aren't off-topic here, right? I want to understand your rules. Or is it only discussions of YOUR family that aren't off-topic?

Jeff

I knew IT would trigger a BFN response from you. LOL

My family is definitely ON topic because they are the key to "This is the Apocalypse!" Problem is you know nothing about biblical prophecy, so the question becomes, "What are YOU doing on this topic?!" Oh, that's right. How would we know the definition of 'natural man' or the 'beast' without an appropriate example of someone who fits into this topic?

The Bible teaches that there are those who live under their own influence without any perception of the 'things of the Spirit'. Thus the question becomes, who would be a better example of those who live only for 'things of the world' than the unbeliever, who is known as 'natural man'?

quote:

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:14 NKJV

Anyone promoting atheism meets the criteria of 'natural man' because he is unable to advance beyond his own carnal nature, and lives his life in the ways of sin and rebellion against God; while theism belongs to those who live 'in the Spirit', those who have wisdom and understanding of the spiritual.

In an uncivilized world, natural man runs around naked like the 'beasts of the field' in a state of ignorance, arrogance, self-indulgence, and self-satisfaction; and will viciously attack anyone who tries to encourage him to be more civilized, or godly. When 'natural man' ascends into a powerful dictatorial position, such as seen in the recent Arab uprising, we see the results of unaccountable abuse! Chaos, corruption, confusion, and bloodshed!

The term “natural man” stands in stark contrast to “spiritual”, which means he is an adversary to all things spiritual, no matter how grandiloquent he may look to others, and no matter what religion or non-religion he follows. He is the "anti-Christ", the "beast" of Revelation 13, the reason God regretted that he had even made man!

The natural man can be described as the animal man, one who lives in a natural state, and under the influence of his animal passions, such as sexual immorality, abusiveness, short-temperedness, godlessness, thievery, lying, deceiving, slander and other works of the flesh. All these things are rooted in power.

In my commentary on "The Apocalypse", he is described as someone who "arrogates to himself the omnipotence of God, which is blasphemy." Daniel's description of the latter day anti-Christ denotes an incredibly clever and deceptive man whose power is not of natural means, but satanic, which is also stated in Revelation 13.

Now it is obvious enough that this is all taken from the Bible, but it does bring us into the complex knowledge of the 'man whose number is 666'.

Goodness, now that I think about it, Glenn is the one who wanted to know more about 'the man of lawlessness', described above. Well, there is your answer, Glenn! He is the '666 beast' of "This is the Apocalypse!"

There is more to the story but will tell it later. The best thing to do right now is keep people in suspense on this 'hot topic'. When the 'great earthquake' happens, you will know truth from falsehood, such as uttered out of the mouth of atheists.

Sela

quote:

Originally posted by Glenn:
As for the translation of “pascha,” it means “Passover” pure and simple. I note that the New King James and every other translation of the Bible I am aware of so translates it. Tyndale may have had lofty motives in using “Easter” or else was just plain wrong. In any case, the word “Easter” is incorrect. I might add something here. That word “pascha” occurs around 25 times in the Greek New Testament. In the King James Version, it is translated “Passover” every time except Acts 12:4. That should tell you something.

Glenn,

If it's of any significance to you, I notice that my Lutheran Concordia Bible with Notes ©1952 does agree with you, and states that "There was no Christian feast called Easter in the days of Peter. And the word Pascha which is here translated Easter, means passover, and should have been so translated."

This is the Bible I used throughout all my years of research and study. Still use it in weekly Bible classes for its commentary, but it is so worn out that I would prefer another similar Bible; but found out that it is no longer published or available.

Sela

Donald, you said,

quote:

I hope the new date is after May 21

I asked around at church today. Everyone it seems knows about May 21, but, then, most everyone these days is on the Internet. I sure will be glad to go to church Sunday, May 22nd. I kidded my wife today that we might forego cleaning up the house this week since the world is coming to an end at the end of the week.

The hell of it is that Camping has already predicted one date that did not happen. When May 21 falls through the crack, he will lay low for a while and reappear with another date. Collect a few more pesos from people scared to death and go on truckin'.

Here is the general scenario for the return of Christ:

There will be a major disaster that affects a major part of the world population. That is, a reduction in the world population in the order of 50% in ten years. Something that threatens to extinct the human race!!

The rising of a powerful world leader who claims he can solve this problem and gains the following and respect of a major part of the surviving world population. By comparison, Hitler, Napoleon, and bin Laden are children.

When the world is about to go belly up, Christ will return.

Now WHEN in history has what I described ever happened in the past?

quote:

Originally posted by Glenn:

Here is the general scenario for the return of Christ:

There will be a major disaster that affects a major part of the world population. That is, a reduction in the world population in the order of 50% in ten years. Something that threatens to extinct the human race!!

The rising of a powerful world leader who claims he can solve this problem and gains the following and respect of a major part of the surviving world population. By comparison, Hitler, Napoleon, and bin Laden are children.

When the world is about to go belly up, Christ will return.

Now WHEN in history has what I described ever happened in the past?

Glenn,

Those are traditional patriarchal teachings, and Donald will tell you that I AM an opponent of 'traditional patriarchal teachings', for the most part anyway, especially in regard to age-end prophecy.

Sela

quote:

Originally posted by EQ:
Sela

I hope the new date is after May 21, as it is heating up with four 6M quakes in three days. They are spread out, so may not amount to much.

Did you watch SNL this weekend? It had Obama exulting in his actions re bin Laden.

Pentecost and Savuot are the same date, June 8, but Christians prefer celebrating on Sunday, and Jews after sundown June 7.

Just teasing,
Donald

Donald,

My 'muse' tells me it is after May 21; will announce it later. However, it might be cryptically.

I seldom watch SNL. The TV is usually on that channel, but I set the timer to shut it off at 11 PM. I usually start yawning and fall asleep way before that time, such as very shortly. Beddie bye.

Sela

quote:

Anyone promoting atheism meets the criteria of 'natural man' because he is unable to advance beyond his own carnal nature, and lives his life in the ways of sin and rebellion against God; while theism belongs to those who live 'in the Spirit', those who have wisdom and understanding of the spiritual.

Really? I'm uncivilized and vicious, violent, and carnal simply because I'm not a theist?

Seems to me most of the savagery in history comes from those who do believe in God, not from atheists. The atheists I see and know seem far more civilized than the bloodthirsty religious zealots who are always trying to impose their views on others, often by force and violence.

This world would be more loving and kind if there were more atheists, in my opinion. But you, Sela, are so consumed by self-righteousness, ego, pride, and hate that you'll never understand that. It's sad really.

And, of course, for an atheist there is no such thing as "sin" although there are ideas of right and wrong. Nor are atheists in rebellion against God; you can't rebel against something that doesn't exist. You might as well accuse me of rebelling against the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. These grandiloquent accusations are pretty silly, aren't they?

I always wonder where your anger and self-righteousness comes from. Jesus didn't teach those attitudes. He taught that people should be loving and kind to each other. You read the Bible a lot, apparently. Did you miss that part?

Jeff

Sela, you said,

quote:

Those are traditional patriarchal teachings, and Donald will tell you that I AM an opponent of 'traditional patriarchal teachings'

Well, call them what you want. To me, it is the clear and plain word of Jesus. (Matt 24:15-22)

I think the Scripture at times is legitimately subject to interpretation. Take the commandment to not commit adultery. There may be some differences of opinion on the matter of divorce and remarriage. There is none on the matter of married people having sex with those other than their spouses.

Jesus in my opinion outlined the simple and concise conditions that would prevail just prior to his return. Religious conflicts, war, famine and disease. Of such magnitude to end humanity. That if he did not return, no flesh would survive. Pretty plain language. So to ignore such plain teaching I think is quite risky.

Glenn

Re:

quote:

Now WHEN in history has what I described ever happened in the past?

Two times come to mind:
Black Plague
When the rains failed in Europe in the Middle Ages.

There were also two volcanic winters in the Summers of the 1800's.

Donald

quote:

think the Scripture at times is legitimately subject to interpretation. Take the commandment to not commit adultery. There may be some differences of opinion on the matter of divorce and remarriage. There is none on the matter of married people having sex with those other than their spouses.

Actually, there are serious difference of opinion on what the word "adultery" means. Today's meaning is far different than the meaning in Biblical times. In Biblical times, a woman was property. If she was married (or at times only being betrothed counted), then she belonged to someone else and having intercourse with her was adultery--because it violated another man's property rights. But if the woman was NOT married or betrothed a man could have intercourse with her and not be guilty of adultery. If she wasn't a virgin, he wouldn't be guilty of any crime at all.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by CompGuy:
(QUOTE]Anyone promoting atheism meets the criteria of 'natural man' because he is unable to advance beyond his own carnal nature, and lives his life in the ways of sin and rebellion against God; while theism belongs to those who live 'in the Spirit', those who have wisdom and understanding of the spiritual.[/QUOTE)

Really? I'm uncivilized and vicious, violent, and carnal simply because I'm not a theist?

This world would be more loving and kind if there were more atheists, in my opinion.

Huh? Your statements are so ignorant and astonishing that I sometimes wonder if you are a man living in a cave with no incoming light; and the sight of light would so startle you that you would run deeper into the cave!

But as long as you have come back over here into the illuminating light of The Apocalypse through the Internet, take a gander at TRUTH!

quote:

THE CRIMES AND EVILS OF MILITANT ATHEISM

Atheists are quick to point out that throughout history large numbers of people were killed in the name of Religion; but they fail to mention the countless millions who were killed by leaders who worshipped themselves or by militant atheist-Communists who were driven by a hatred for God and Religion.

While it is true that 'large numbers of people were killed in the name of Religion', there is a hidden reason for it. And the TRUTH of God's Word gives us that hidden reason!

quote:

But you, Sela, are so consumed by self-righteousness, ego, pride, and hate that you'll never understand that. It's sad really.

What is really sad is that you are totally incapable of discernment and judge people by your own mirror. But when a heavy dead bolt lands on a concrete floor, all one can expect from such a clunkhead is reverberation of the same old tune. You wouldn't know the 'bad guy' from the 'good guy' if he hit you in the head with a dead bolt!

Over and over again I thank the LORD GOD OF THE HEAVENS that all judgment on earth revolves around the treatment of MAN towards WOMAN; but it will take a change in man's misogynist heart for such a light to shine on earth, because MAN will have to first admit the SINS that he has done through sheer bias and willful brutality. But it won't be easy, not without the manifestation of Divine Judgment because, for the atheist, there is no such thing as 'sin' and 'great wickedness'. Thus he thinks he can do what he wants and say what he wants without fear of eternal judgment.

quote:

And, of course, for an atheist there is no such thing as "sin" although there are ideas of right and wrong. Nor are atheists in rebellion against God; you can't rebel against something that doesn't exist. You might as well accuse me of rebelling against the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. These grandiloquent accusations are pretty silly, aren't they?
I always wonder where your anger and self-righteousness comes from. Jesus didn't teach those attitudes. He taught that people should be loving and kind to each other. You read the Bible a lot, apparently. Did you miss that part?

What? Here we go again with ignorance and blindness! Thank God the Bible does truthfully state that CHRIST'S RETURN is a DAY OF WRATH!

And thank God for the Internet (or was it Al Gore?). It makes post-writing so easy!

Unfortunately, the Internet is mostly owned and operated by atheists, so this was the big headline news when I logged on. He thinks there is no heaven ~~ and thus no hell. Boy, does he have a shock coming!

Earthquake shock?

Sela

From the highest to the lowest, we see crimes against women!

It should be interesting whether one of the most prominent men on earth will be locked up for years!

Oh, that's right. That's only what men do to women who have a spiritual experience.

Sela

Yes, indeed--there have been millions of people murdered by those who do not have any particular religious leanings. We agree on that.

Since most people in power in history profess to be religious, the odds are pretty good that religious people murder more people than atheists. It's irrelevant to the point I was making anyway.

I stand by my point that a loving and forgiving God seems to be the opposite of your concept of God and Jesus, Sela. Your posts continue to be filled with hatred--not just for atheists, but for anyone who disagrees with your particular viewpoint, which is most of mankind and womankind. Your hatred of men is especially odd to see. And your disdain for all other religions is obvious. Jews and Muslims and Hindus don't view Jesus the same way as you do, so they are doomed too according to your unforgiving philosophy.

No one "owns" the Internet, but most rational people know that we're mere specks in the universe and the odds of us having any special relationship with any Deity is might slim, even if such a Deity existed. Hawkings is simply stating what most rational people have known for centuries but are afraid to say because of the punishment and prejudice of the religious majority. Fortunately, we've come a long way since the church required Galileo to recant.

Jeff

Sela

Today is the date the federal debt limit was reached, although the US Treasury will borrow from pension funds enough to keep the federal government going until August.

Even Medicare may be on the cost cutting table as Dems and Repubs argue incessantly.

Talk about Babylon under fire.

Donald

Jeff, you said,

quote:

Actually, there are serious difference of opinion on what the word "adultery" means.

I was stating what I thought was the contemporary Christian view. As you note, different views have prevailed in the past.

I can only say that in my single (single again) experiences I met and talked with many single adults. Met with both men and women. A common denominator to divorce was overwhelmingly adultery. When the couple started committing adultery, the marriage was dying. So regardless of how it it may be interpreted, the adultery commandment is an important factor in human civilization.

I do note that marriage and fidelity to a single partner are being ever more called into question these days.

There is another prominent scientist who joins Jeff in denying even heaven and hell, theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking:

quote:

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

This guy has been able to live despite severe neurologic impairment.

Donald

This sounds like a battle for Babylon:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/art...eneral_US.Debt.Limit

Donald

quote:

Originally posted by CompGuy:
Yes, indeed--there have been millions of people murdered by those who do not have any particular religious leanings. We agree on that.

Since most people in power in history profess to be religious, the odds are pretty good that religious people murder more people than atheists.

Now I understand why it has been said that an atheist's mind is like a closed empty box. There is nothing but darkness there, which is simply the absence of light. There is absolutely no 'light' in an atheist's head. He makes things up as he goes along and then expects the reader to believe it is 'empirical' truth.

First of all, he states:

quote:

Since most people in power in history profess to be religious, the odds are pretty good that religious people murder more people than atheists.

Ah! How interesting! Most people in power in history profess to be religious? Whose history? Ancient Egyptian history? Ancient Roman history? Historians have said that all paleolithic cultures from the Old Stone Age to the present have strong pagan elements; so what religion would they be professing while in power? Egyptians, Romans, Greeks were all pagans before monotheism began its climb; so what 'religion' would 'people in power' be professing with the 'odds' that you suggest?

As a matter of fact, pagans believed that the false gods they worshipped regarded violence as sacred!

quote:

The most fundamental feature of pre-Christian Europe was that it possessed pagan beliefs, in other words polytheistic religions. Europeans believed that the false gods they worshipped revealed many aspects of life to them and helped to them. Among the most important of these were the gods of war, who appeared in just about every pagan society.

This prestige that gods of war enjoyed in pagan belief was the result of these societies' regarding violence as sacred. Pagan peoples were all barbarian and lived in a permanent atmosphere of war. To kill and spill blood in the name of the people was seen as a sacred duty. Savagery and violence of almost all kinds could find a justification in the pagan world. There was no ethical source to forbid violence or say that it was wrong.

Paganism is the same as atheism, which has its roots in a fascist ideology! So who are these 'religious people in power' who murdered people through history! Huh? Most were FASCISTS! And that seems to be the ideology of today, also!

quote:

I stand by my point that a loving and forgiving God seems to be the opposite of your concept of God and Jesus, Sela. Your posts continue to be filled with hatred--not just for atheists, but for anyone who disagrees with your particular viewpoint, which is most of mankind and womankind. Your hatred of men is especially odd to see. And your disdain for all other religions is obvious. Jews and Muslims and Hindus don't view Jesus the same way as you do, so they are doomed too according to your unforgiving philosophy.

Huh? Give me empirical evidence of this! Show me the posts! Disdain for other religions?! Where? Osama bin Laden and Muammar Gaddafi are terrorists, i.e. savage pagans, beasts, and no amount of your lies will empirically demonstrate that my posts show 'disdain for all other religions'. As a matter of fact, it was a MUSLIM (with whom I worked) who praised my first book when it was first came out, more so than the CHRISTIAN! IIRC, this was posted in the past, possibly on the old Prodigy forums.

The problem with religion is that FUNDAMENTALISM is the CAUSE of terrorism! And believe you me, I know that firsthand because the man I wrote about in my autobiography was a fundamentalist! A terrorist! A savage beast! And no amount of church attendance would prove otherwise! Same with Islam. I have met some very nice Muslims during my employment years; and they certainly cannot all be painted with the same brush, as so many people love to do. In fact, this same Muslim, who was head of his mosque, asked me to give a talk on my book at one of their meetings. This was 30 years ago before the promotion of animosity towards another's religion took over, especially through the 24/7 MSM.

And then here we have a fundamentalist atheist falsely trying to portray the most lowliest and humblest of Christians as filled with 'pride and hate' just because she is capable of doing a better job of composing words; whereas your posts show ignorance and complete lack of discernment.



Sela

Sela, you said,

quote:

Now I understand why it has been said that an atheist's mind is like a closed empty box.

Okay, the atheist is one who believes in NO GOD. Their mind is an empty box.

The alternative to being an atheist is to believe in some sort of God.

Question 1: Are Buddhists in your view atheists? Are their minds empty boxes?

Question 2: Exactly what does a person have to believe to have a mind that is not an empty box in your opinion?

Regards,

quote:

Paganism is the same as atheism

Paganists are theists; atheists are not theists. Sela, you consider the two to be the same either out of complete ignorance or because of your belief that pagans worship the wrong gods.

If you're going to talk about the number of people who profess to be religious, you have to consider the world population over the years. At the time of Christ there were roughly 300 million people in the world, with about 80 births per thousand people per year. According to:
http://www.prb.org/Articles/20...verLivedonEarth.aspx
there were more people born since Christ than existed before Christ. There were many pre-Christian religions as well as many post-Christian religions, so my point about more people in history professing to be religious than otherwise is well-founded. Most people in most societies believe in some sort of religion. To you, Sela, only belief in Jesus counts, but that isn't what the rest of us mean when we talk about religion.

And my comments were about those who were in power. Hitler and Mussolini both professed to be Catholics. I don't claim that religious conflicts caused most wars or even were the main factors in most wars (the Thirty Years War is an exception)--only that those in power over the centuries who did most murdering professed to be religious. Very few claimed to be atheists. And surely that's simply a factual statement.

As for your constant hatred and insults, a person only has to read his thread. It's fascinating that you defend yourself by saying you had a kind word to say about a Muslim or two a decade ago somewhere else. Your hatred of most people who disagree with you here is pretty obvious.

Now go ahead and call me a bunch of names once again, and mention that I'm both doomed and ignorant. You do that fairly often as well.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Glenn:
Sela, you said,

[QUOTE)Now I understand why it has been said that an atheist's mind is like a closed empty box.[/QUOTE)

Okay, the atheist is one who believes in NO GOD. Their mind is an empty box.

The alternative to being an atheist is to believe in some sort of God.

Question 1: Are Buddhists in your view atheists? Are their minds empty boxes?

Question 2: Exactly what does a person have to believe to have a mind that is not an empty box in your opinion?

Regards,

Glenn,

The simple fact is that Buddhists explicitly reject the idea of a "Creator"; but do believe that there are 'deities' or some kind of 'supernatural beings' who exist. Since the basic doctrine of Buddhism is that 'this world is not created and ruled by an Almighty God', it would be more accurate to call this religion nontheistic rather than atheistic.

Buddhists do not believe that there is a 'God or Son of God' who hands out rewards or punishments on Judgment Day. (They are wrong.) It is said that their myriad teachings are like maps to follow on a spiritual journey, or a boat to carry you across a river.

IIRC, the subject of Buddhism was debated in times past; and there was a Buddhist on the Prodigy forum who posted regularly. Some say Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion, which sounds more accurate in the context of faith and worship of a Supernatural and Sovereign Being who governs the universe. I think they teach that everything is 'fleeting' and an 'illusion'. There is no heaven. There is no hell. There is no soul. There is only 'today'.

This, of course, is very contrary to the monotheistic religions; and as far as their mind being an 'empty box' in the same way an atheist's mind is, I would say 'no' because they do teach one can achieve 'enlightenment' by following their path. I am not taking the time to read over much of the information in these two websites. They are more for your benefit or whoever is interested. I am not interested but did not want to dismiss your questions.

Am more interested in debating "This is the Apocalypse!"

Sela

quote:

Originally posted by CompGuy:
Hitler and Mussolini both professed to be Catholics.

Sheesh. If you want to make a blatant statement about something, why is it that you seldom if ever post your source? Is it because the source might make your statements unreliable? Or is it because you loove to deliberately malign Christianity by making 'cruel savage beasts' as being 'professing Catholics'. The truth is both were professing atheists!

quote:

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains," -- Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

See: http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/object5.html

Mussolini was an avowed atheist.

quote:

"Religion is a species of mental disease." -- Benito Mussolini

See: http://www.worldexaminer.com/w...olini-christian.html

And yes, they both give a vivid image of YOUR mind as evidenced in your postings.

quote:

Now go ahead and call me a bunch of names once again, and mention that I'm both doomed and ignorant. You do that fairly often as well.

Why should I? You do that fairly often as well!



Sela

Sela, you said,

quote:

Am more interested in debating "This is the Apocalypse!"

So am I!

But there is an issue I think that has been overlooked. The world has about 7 billion people at this point.

world population

And say there are 2 billion Christians.

number of Christians

Clearly Christians do not dominate the world even if they are the largest denomination.

So here is my question: What happens to that majority of the human race that dies “out of Christ?” Do we just write them off as “empty boxes?”

Where do you see them fitting into the Apocalypse and the return of Christ? In short, what happens to the billions of people born and have died over the past two thousand years who were not Christians?

And back to my question from the last post, “Just what is it that one has to believe to have something other than an “empty box” for a head?

quote:

Paganism is the same as atheism

WTF??? That is complete and total b.s.

Sorry I haven't been around and haven't been able to post more, but I have to move by May 27th and I have NO idea how it's going to actually happen. As usual, I have a huge backlog of chaos to deal with, beyond the actual move.

But I couldn't let that one get past me without comment. I still don't know the context (read it in Jeff's quote) but I know too many Pagans to buy that for a minute. Most see the Goddess as the antidote or counterbalancing force to the God of authoritarian patriarchal religion.

In her essence or nature (not personfied) she is the life-force, the immanent intelligence within nature, called shakti or kundalini by the Hindus. In other words, most Pagans are pantheists or panentheists. The difference between the two: A panentheist believes divinity ALSO exists outside of nature or manifestation--i.e. God is transcendant as well as imminent.

To some people this is a very important theological distinction, but to me it's an abstract technicality. I just don't know how how humans could experience a transcendant God, when we ourselves exist within nature. Therefore everything we experience likewise exists within nature, including the so-called "supernatural."

Yeah, I've heard all about "revelation" and even experienced a few minor revelations myself. But WHAT is it exactly that is being revealed at such times? Not something outside of nature, whatever it is, but a more subtle or "occult" aspect of nature than we normally experience in mundane life.

I could be wrong but I think most Pagans have a similar take on it.

--Linda

quote:

There is a point of genuine misunderstanding that I want to clear up. The New Testament was written in Greek and not English. In the New Testament is the phrase many times “pneuma hagios (in various grammatical forms) that means “Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost.” I was merely pointing out that “Holy Ghost” is archaic and even misleading. I note that the New King James uses “Holy Spirit” exclusively. As a matter of interest, we get our word pneumatic or "air driven" from the Greek word "pneuma."

Glenn,

True as far as it goes, but what you're glossing over here is that the word pneuma is grammatically feminine in Greek. Likewise the Hebrew equivalent ruach which also means wind, breath, or spirit. What conventional patriarchal religion glosses over for the most part is that the Holy Spirit is the feminine aspect of the Trinity--in other words, the mother or the Goddess.

As the Gnostic Gospel of Philip puts it: "Some say Mary conceived of the Holy Spirit. They are in error. What they are saying they do not know. When did a woman ever conceive of a woman?"

My son who has always self-identified as Jewish had a similar revelation on LSD a few years back. He realized that the conventional Christian trinity was wrong or distorted, because it left out the feminine aspect of God. He also felt compelled to tell me about it afterwards, which of course made me feel very vindicated. He finally realized that his sister and I are right!

--Linda

Gosh, I wasn't aware that I had to give references for basic facts such as that Hitler and Mussolini were Catholics. Of course they were. Mussolini had his children baptised in 1923. In 1926, he had a Catholic marriage ceremony to his wife Rachele. He made Roman Catholicism the official state religion of Italy.

Hitler was a Roman Catholic, baptized as an infant in Austria. He became a communicant and an altar boy in his youth, and was confirmed as a "soldier of Christ" in that church. He never left the Church.

I said both professed to be Catholics; I do not claim that they acted in accordance with all Catholic beliefs. But, then, few Catholics act in accordance with all Catholic beliefs. They pick the ones they like and ignore the rest.

Since you're too lazy to look up the facts, here are a few references and quotes.

quote:

Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf. "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938.

Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." He never left the church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by his church, but his miserable Mien Kampf never appeared on the Index of Forbidden Books.

He was not excommunicated or even condemned by his church. Popes, in fact, contracted with Hitler and his fascist friends Franco and Mussolini, giving them veto power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. The three thugs agreed to surtax the Catholics of their countries and send the money to Rome in exchange for making sure the state could control the church.

Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and microphones. Acclaimed Hitler biographer, John Toland, explains his heartlessness as follows: "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of god. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of god..."

Hitler's Germany amalgamated state with church. Soldiers of the vermacht wore belt buckles inscribed with the following: "Gott mit uns" (God is with us). His troops were often sprinkled with holy water by the priests. It was a real Christian country whose citizens were indoctrinated by both state and church to blindly follow all authority figures, political and ecclesiastical.

That's from
http://www.infidels.org/librar...eligionofhitler.html

quote:

Mussolini left religion outside the control of the government. He had his children baptized and married their mother in the church. He passed laws to make swearing in public a crime and allowed crosses to be hung in public buildings. He made religious education compulsory in Italy. In 1929 he signed a treaty with Gasparri. The Lateran Treaty gave the Pope 750 million lire in compensation for the land taken from him when Italy was united in 1870. It made the Vatican City an independent state with its own army, police force, law courts, and post office. The ending of the long lasting breech between the church and Italian government was Mussolini's most lasting and worthwhile achievement.

Source:
http://staff.gps.edu/mines/Age...20of%20Mussolini.htm

Stop trying to change history to conform to your views. Try letting history shape your views for a change.

Adding a bit of science and rational thinking to the mix wouldn't hurt either.

Jeff