Here's a very spiritual person with some great advice.

I have Stephen Levine's book A Gradual Awakening which is a classic.


Holy Bhagworm

It's about 11 pages and you'd have to read it and think about it. I don't expect that some of you would do it or care about it. Anyway, there's some valuable stuff about dealing with life and death, with burdens of life, with breathing exercises to help one cope with difficulties and an analysis of what really happens when someone passes on. And part of the premise is that you imagine that you only have one year to live - and that you live your life from this new perspective. Give it a chance.

Holy Bhagworm

HB,
     I read the interview. Stephen Levine is a man whose beloved is slowly dying. He has much more to learn, as do we all.
Seán

quote:

Originally posted by Sean:
HB,
     I read the interview. Stephen Levine is a man whose beloved is slowly dying. He has much more to learn, as do we all.
Seán

Thanks for reading it, Sean. It's amazing how someone like Stephen Levine writes from a place beyond beyond like in A Gradual Awakening and then writes from a position of vulnerability 30 years later. We are all on a journey and it takes constant reminders and diligence to not side-step the way. I need to read Be Here Now all the time - and it's only a matter of weeks, before I forget. In Ram Dass' The Only Dance There Is Ram Dass mentions that he so easily lost his faith after his guru died. It was only a matter of divine intervention that he was able to find his path again.

Holy Bhagworm

     Imagining one's self to have only one year of life remaining creates a sense of urgency about things that must be done, and makes it easier to decide what can be neglected. Pretending life will last another century has the same effect: There is a never-ending list of important things to do, but few omissible without regret. The best solution is to live forever, but I've tried that and it isn't working.
Seán
   

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I've tried that and it isn't working.

How do you know?

I've tried that, and it's working so far.

Jeff

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How do you know?—CompGuy

Jeff,
     Parts of me fall off, or fail, at an accelerating rate. If it continues, the time will come when I will be nothing but an empty place.
Seán

Not emptiness, Sean. You need to get you some good cyborg implants!
--
Stephen

quote:

The best solution is to live forever, but I've tried that and it isn't working.

You've always been here, Sean. And you always will be.

Holy Bhagworm

Understanding is a three-edged sword.

quote:

You've always been here, Sean. And you always will be.—Holy Bhagworm

HB,
     I speak earnestly here. I'm almost certain the human spirit is still too small to go on forever: As the years go by a man accumulates a weight of memories that eventually must crush him. As we are today, an eternity of memories would blur the difference between Hell and Heaven.
     If you think amnesia separates sequential incarnations, what is the point of repeated lives? Wouldn't it be better for each newborn to be made of fresh material than to be a sort of retread?
     My best hope is that, when mankind has grown to some semblance of real stature and can endure prolonged existence, a few fragments of my DNA may remain to share the glory,
Seán

quote:

Originally posted by Sean:

quote:

You've always been here, Sean. And you always will be.—Holy Bhagworm

HB,
     I speak earnestly here. I'm almost the certain the human spirit is still too small to go on forever: As the years go by a man accumulates a weight of memories that eventually must crush him. As we are today, an eternity of memories would blur the difference between Hell and Heaven.
     If you think amnesia separates sequential incarnations, what is the point of repeated lives? Wouldn't it be better for each newborn to be made of fresh material than to be a sort of retread?
     My best hope is that, when mankind has grown to some semblance of real stature and can endure prolonged existence, a few fragments of my DNA may remain to share the glory,
Seán

Sean,
Remind me to invite you to my next party...you're a barrel of laughs.

Holy Bhagworm

quote:

Remind me to invite you to my next party...—Holy Bhagworm

HB,
     I will be delighted. Black shrouds or white?
Seán

quote:

Originally posted by Sean:

quote:

Remind me to invite you to my next party...—Holy Bhagworm

HB,
     I will be delighted. Black shrouds or white?
Seán

Come as you are.

Holy Bhagworm

quote:

If you think amnesia separates sequential incarnations, what is the point of repeated lives? Wouldn't it be better for each newborn to be made of fresh material than to be a sort of retread?

I wonder if I should say what I'm thinking here. Probably not, since it got me no end of grief on another forum a few months back.

Okay, I'll say it but I will NOT explain: I am pretty sure I know who I was in my previous incarnation. I don't "remember" being this person--that is to say, I have no specific memories of that incarnation. But there is one specific person I have identified with for over 30 years now, who died a few years before I was born. My astrologer friend was able to get hold of her birth data, and not only was she also an Aquarius, she ALSO had her ascendant and moon in the same signs where I have mine. But I only found that out recently (although I knew she was an Aquarius).

My present incarnation is in many ways a do-over, because I blew it SOOOO badly in the previous one. And I was smart enough to know better too!

That's ALL the information I'm going to volunteer, though.

--Linda

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I wonder if I should say what I'm thinking here. Probably not, since it got me no end of grief on another forum...—Raksha

Linda,
     I favor saying what one thinks, if the thought is constructive and can be expressed courteously. But bound, as I am, by a compulsion to treat no concept as fact unless it can be tested by competent experimentation, I impose some limitations on the things I say. I am not, however, reluctant to contemplate new and apparently impossible ideas because those are the source of fresh knowledge.
     Reincarnation is an example in point. Its existence has never been supported by a well-designed experimental study, so I doubt it happens in spite of the plethora of anecdotal evidence for its occurrence. This position is especially difficult for me to maintain because I have a persistent, detailed memory of a short, semi-civilized life during medieval times. I did not know it then, but current knowledge tells me I lived in Brittany at a time when it was wooded far more heavily than now. I acquired little useful information during that lifetime, but I still know how to make the beer that folks were drinking then.
Seán

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I acquired little useful information during that lifetime, but I still know how to make the beer that folks were drinking then.

That sounds very useful!

Holy Bhagworm

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Not emptiness, Sean. You need to get you some good cyborg implants!—Stephen

Stephen,
     That sounds very well, but one must wonder how many prostheses a person can incorporate and still be really there. At some point, surely, the replacements will take over and begin to wag the person.
Seán

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As the years go by a man accumulates a weight of memories that eventually must crush him.

Yeah, but a man also gets senile and forgets much of what should be memories. Plus memories are notoriously unreliable and are, in fact, pretty much invented by us as life goes on to some extent. And as we age we get better able to handle the memories we have.

It's sad you view memories as a crush that kills, rather than as what's left from experiences that delight.

Jeff

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That sounds very well, but one must wonder how many prostheses a person can incorporate and still be really there. At some point, surely, the replacements will take over and begin to wag the person.

That actually raises the interesting question of what it means to be oneself at all anyhow. If the change is incremental, and each increment is accepted as now being a part of "me", then is the end result after many incremental changes still "me"? Is there a continuity of identity throughout and despite the changes? Or is it lost somehow somewhere along the way?

An example of the same thing already occurs in the natural world: the life cycle of an individual organism. Each of us today as an adult is different from what we were as an adolescent, and from what we were as children, and as infants, and we will continue to change as we age further out--physically, mentally, in our experiences and environments, etc. So are we the same "me" the whole time? I think we are, but it's an interesting question.
--
Stephen

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It's sad you view memories as a crush that kills, rather than as what's left from experiences that delight.—CompGuy

Jeff,
     Don't you think that is our common lot? Joy and delight require effort while misery comes free of charge. Eventually we all exhaust our will and strength for seeking happiness, then woe rushes in to fill the void. Or do you have a better plan?
Seán

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Is there a continuity of identity throughout and despite the [incremental] changes?—Stephen

     In one sense identity remains the same: In theory it is possible to use an old person's DNA to clone an infant exactly like that person was when newly born. Beyond that, divergence must begin because life's experiences can not be replicated and those experiences are what form and change an individual.
     Put less fancifully, the world in which I experienced my developmental years was vastly different from the world in which we are living now. If I were growing up in the new one, I would be an entirely different person.
Seán

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Eventually we all exhaust our will and strength for seeking happiness, then woe rushes in to fill the void. Or do you have a better plan?

Happiness doesn't require will and strength. Happiness is the natural state of life, for me anyway. Oh, sure, I've read the depressing philosophers. I read Hobbes' Leviathan long ago and understand his point that the life of man is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. But I never agreed with that.

Excruciating pain, starvation, and illness aside, it's pretty much your choice whether you are happy or sad. It's an attitude. Of course situations can influence your moods. Run me over with a truck or start waterboarding me and I don't think I'd still maintain I'm happy. But in the absence of such obvious negatives, happiness is the norm. Why would you assume that woe is the natural state of man?

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by CompGuy:

quote:

As the years go by a man accumulates a weight of memories that eventually must crush him.

Yeah, but a man also gets senile and forgets much of what should be memories. Plus memories are notoriously unreliable and are, in fact, pretty much invented by us as life goes on to some extent. And as we age we get better able to handle the memories we have.

It's sad you view memories as a crush that kills, rather than as what's left from experiences that delight.

Jeff

Jeff,

I'm with you on this one. I don't quite understand why Sean sees memories as a crush that kills either. I don't see them that way at all. But then even some of my more painful and traumatic memories have changed their meaning fairly recently. While the specific memories are still painful and traumatic, I am seeing them in a wider context now.

Everyone,

I'm sorry I haven't been posting much yesterday or today, but I've been kind of busy with other projects the past few days. So please don't take it personally. I'm not mad at anyone--just a little bit preoccupied.

--Linda

 

quote:

Happiness is the natural state of life, for me anyway.—CompGuy

Jeff,
     You surprise me. Perhaps a small thought experiment will illustrate my point. Let's use you as the guinea pig. Choose any stage of life you wish, and we'll specify you're happy. Soon some need is certain to arise: You may want food or have to use the potty or even don some clothes to keep your assets warm and toasty. To restore your delight in living by correcting such deficiencies will require effort on your part or the effort of another person. If you ignore the problem, it is certain to worsen and your happiness will vanish due to inanition.
     Of course you will exert the necessary efforts every time they are called for, but the calls will be incessant, so your resources must be eventually exhausted. When that occurs, your miseries will fill the voids as your happiness erodes because misery is effortless and plentiful. When the replacement is completed the experiment will end. Thermodynamics always holds the winning hand.
Seán