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14th Amendment: Debt Ceiling Unconstitutional?
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Picture of *CJ
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This topic has devolved so far it's only fit for Free Exchange.

Buh-byee.

*CJ
 
Posts: 13119 | Location: Austin, TX USA | Mbr Since: 09-08-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Aally
Picture of Georgia Brown
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Although I had not yet commented. I've been studying this most fascinating and timely topic -- reading and following the posts. This was one of the rare good discussions on this board....cheapshorts notwithstanding

I've also been working on a contribution. When I again I looked and for the topic I and finally found it here.

Can't you just take down the childishness? Use some judicious red ink?

There was more good stuff here than bad by a long shot. If someone wants to make dumb statements, create smoke and mirrors and cheapen the discussion, how can you expect people not to criticize them? It happens with every decent attempt at discussion on this board. Am I suppose to take the lying seriously?

Slapping myself because I had better things to do today. I KNEW better than to waste it working on something here. Here's one of my findings. I'm so PO'd and busy I think it will be all for a while.

So I'm just going to post it here without comment or further waste of time.....flourish or planned comments and editing.

Just sign me angry today. Tantrum/Flail   :tantrum:

This is from John Kenneth Galbraith:
quote:
.....The debt ceiling was first enacted in 1917. Why? The date tells all: we were about to enter the Great War. To fund that effort, the Wilson government needed to issue Liberty Bonds. This was controversial, and the debt ceiling was cover, passed to reassure the rubes that Congress would be “responsible” even while the country went to war. It was, from the beginning, an exercise in bad faith and has remained so every single second to the present day.

Today this bad-faith law is pressed to its absurd extreme, to force massive cuts in public programs as the price of not-reneging on the public debts of the United States. Never mind that to force default on the public obligations of the United States is plainly unconstitutional. Section 4 of the 14th amendment says in simple language that public debts, once duly authorized by law and including pensions, by the way, “shall not be questioned.” The purpose of this language was to foreclose, to put beyond politics, any possibility that the Union would renege on debts and pensions and bounties incurred to win the Civil War. But the application is very general and the courts have ruled that the principle extends to the present day.

What is going on in Congress at this moment already violates that mandate. It is an effort to subvert the authority of the government to meet and therefore to incur obligations of every possible stripe. It is an attack on the concept of government itself – as the “Tea Party” by its very name would no doubt agree. It therefore paints those deficit hawks who are using the debt ceiling to take budget hostages as enemies of the United States Constitution.

The President, though supposedly a constitutional expert and though sworn to “preserve, protect and defend” the Constitution, will not say this. Instead he appears to treat the Constitution as an optional matter, to which he will not resort, in the hope that by negotiating with the hostage- takers he can reach some reasonable outcome that will preserve everyone’s good name. (The great Harvard legal scholar Laurence Tribe recently argued that the President cannot defy the debt ceiling on his own. That’s a debatable point.) It is as though Lincoln in 1861 faced with the siege of Sumter had sat down with Confederate commissioners to see what could be worked out.


What fiscal Crisis? The great unasked question...Why?


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      I'm the one on percussion...
 
Posts: 35961 | Location: Frogville, Georgia USA | Mbr Since: 10-07-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of purplepentode
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That's James Galbraith -- not John Kenneth, who died some time ago.


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What's a purple pentode? Why, it's one that's gassy!
 
Posts: 11386 | Location: USA | Mbr Since: 10-07-2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Aally
Picture of Georgia Brown
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quote:
Originally posted by purplepentode:
That's James Galbraith -- not John Kenneth, who died some time ago.


I thought he was but in my fury, I read James Kenneth as John Kenneth. Fixed it.

-P


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      I'm the one on percussion...
 
Posts: 35961 | Location: Frogville, Georgia USA | Mbr Since: 10-07-2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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