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Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Somebody up there definitely likes me.


quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Of course we do Dahlin'. From up here it appears you are quite dapper, though just a bit too sure of yourself, given the little evidence you base your beliefs on.


quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Ah, m'dear, I can assure you I can compose a case arguing Jesus is the Sacred Mushroom and provide infinitely more evidence than any Christian cleric could provide indicating he is one-third of the Trinity or any another aspect of the deity.


Well, I'd like to see that. Not that I need any persuasion to reject the "Trinity Doctrine" since that isn't something I've bought into anyway, mind you.

And I have seen the icons picturing The Christ with Sacred Mushrooms...IIRC.

quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
I note some refer to the Sumerian Eden, which became the Christian Eden, the Adam and Eve story, which is the Hebrew version of the Greek Pandora's Jar, and Noah's mythological flood, a direct copy of Utnapishtin's flood.


No biggie. "Revelation" takes care of the similarity in the stories. Just don't fall into the trap of taking them too literally, huh!

Now, to Steve. Please contact him asap as he really seems to need contact with friends right now. Says he sent you an email to the address he had and received a message that it was undeliverable...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Thanks, but I’m not sure I’m up to arguing too much religion right now. My concentration isn’t totally up to it.


Nor I. More than a little focused on Steve and Marianne along with being distracted with sis cleaning my house. Such disparate focuses!

Steve is sounding very despondent anticipating the loss of his "best friend and lifelong companion." And he's lost most of his email contact addresses. The timing couldn't be worse as he seems to feel the need to have contact with friends right now.


I still have his e mail, I’ll try to send something, soon.
 
Posts: 12689 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Originally posted by Allan:
It might seem impossible now, but IMO in the not-too-far-distant future a group of knowledgeable people will get together and mine the Internet for all it's worth on the question of the Abrahamic religions, and when that happens they will collapse.


quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
PFFT!


quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Somehow I read that as the internet will collapse!


LOL.

While I anticipate that the Abrahamic religions will move more and more away from the fundie variety and into the mystic variety, I don't see them moving toward collapse.


I believe that fundamentalism is caused in part by the inability to cope with rapid change. Perhaps those who are able to deal with gaming and the likewill see that they can keep up with change.
 
Posts: 12689 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:

LOL.

While I anticipate that the Abrahamic religions will move more and more away from the fundie variety and into the mystic variety, I don't see them moving toward collapse.


In that case they will need to go back to what may be the original Christ figure, Horus, son of Isis and Osiris.

No chance of avoiding the Feminine there.

Are you reading Tom Harper?
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:

LOL.

While I anticipate that the Abrahamic religions will move more and more away from the fundie variety and into the mystic variety, I don't see them moving toward collapse.


In that case they will need to go back to what may be the original Christ figure, Horus, son of Isis and Osiris.

No chance of avoiding the Feminine there.

Are you reading Tom Harper?


Tom Harper or Tom Harpur of "The Pagan Christ"?

I watched a couple of videos on YouTube of the latter, and I do agree with some of what he says. But I have no reason to believe that Horus was the First Anointed/Christ. The concept is clearly universal and goes back to the Zodiac; something I have stated numerous times.

Can't/won't allow myself to order any more books until I've read the ones I have (7-8 right now) - and with this being 'the Winter season', I'm heavily into my crochet projects for the poor. Just don't have the time to devote to a lot of reading until Spring.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
In that case they will need to go back to what may be the original Christ figure, Horus, son of Isis and Osiris.

No chance of avoiding the Feminine there.

Are you reading Tom Harper?


quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Tom Harper or Tom Harpur of "The Pagan Christ"?

I watched a couple of videos on YouTube of the latter, and I do agree with some of what he says. But I have no reason to believe that Horus was the First Anointed/Christ. The concept is clearly universal and goes back to the Zodiac; something I have stated numerous times.


Horus is more directly a cross symbol than a Christ symbol though by the time you get to the gospels the two concepts kind of merge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinianism

quote:
Valentinus was born in approximately 100 AD and died in Alexandria in approximately AD 180.[4] According to Epiphanius of Salamis, a Christian scholar, he was born in Egypt and schooled in Alexandria. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 – c. 215), another Christian scholar and teacher, reports that Valentinus was taught by Theudas, a disciple of the apostle Paul...

A figure entirely peculiar to Valentinian Gnosticism is that of Horos (the Limiter). The name is perhaps an echo of the Egyptian Horus.[17]

The task of Horos is to separate the fallen Aeons from the upper world of Aeons. At the same time he becomes a kind of world-creative power, who in this capacity helps to construct an ordered world out of Sophia and her passions. He is also called Stauros (cross), and we frequently meet with references to the figure of Stauros. Speculations about the Stauros are older than Christianity, and a Platonic conception may have been at work here. Plato had already stated that the World-Soul revealed itself in the form of the letter Chi (X); by which he meant that figure described in the heavens by the intersecting orbits of the sun and the planetary ecliptic. Since through this double orbit all the movements of the heavenly powers are determined, so all “becoming” and all life depend on it, and thus we can understand the statement that the World-Soul appears in the form of an X, or a cross.

The cross can also stand for the wondrous Aeon on whom depends the ordering and life of the world, and thus Horos-Stauros appears here as the first redeemer of Sophia from her passions, and as the orderer of the creation of the world which now begins. Naturally, then, the figure of Horos-Stauros was often assimilated to that of the Christian Redeemer. We possibly find echoes of this in the Gospel of Peter, where the Cross itself is depicted as speaking and even floating out of the tomb.


Horos was kind of a special purpose son of the duo at the top of the Ogdoad (which embeds the 7 heavens idea). I would guess the Horos-cross relates to Rosicrucian.
 
Posts: 1149 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:


Harpur, of course; how careless of me. He is well worth the read.

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone who reads widely would stick with the Jewish version, as it clearly is a political amalgam of much older religions.

Hinduism, on the other hand, despite its flaws, is a far older and more mature religion.

As we saw in the Posse extreme, Ish Milchama is a Man of War, an instrument of division.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24m-KCofYhs
https://www.facebook.com/Micha...osts/479014662220523

I so often see people say they open the Bible at random and find the solution to their problems. Serendipitously, when I do that I see nothing but hatred and vicious warfare.

Hinduism, on the other hand, accepts we are all somewhere on our path to the Ultimate. Whether we are animists, polytheists, monotheists, pantheists, panentheists, or whatever, we will all arrive.

Indians can, of course, be as warlike as anyone else, however I know of no religious war there until the Moslems arrived. No king in the Tanakh can equal Ashoka.
https://www.buddhanet.net/e-le.../dharmadata/fdd9.htm

[Struggling to see through the tears as I am listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?...t=PLC80DC638A44DC34E I'll have Katherine Jenkins sing Time to say Goodbye at my funeral. Cymru am byth! Have to agree with this comment: Worcester Exchange
Nobody should be that beautiful - It is just not fair to the rest of the human race. Loved her in that Doctor Who episode.
https://www.letssingit.com/sar...lish-version-lgwh942
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:

...A figure entirely peculiar to Valentinian Gnosticism is that of Horos (the Limiter). The name is perhaps an echo of the Egyptian Horus.[17]

The task of Horos is to separate the fallen Aeons from the upper world of Aeons. At the same time he becomes a kind of world-creative power, who in this capacity helps to construct an ordered world out of Sophia and her passions. He is also called Stauros (cross), and we frequently meet with references to the figure of Stauros. Speculations about the Stauros are older than Christianity, and a Platonic conception may have been at work here. Plato had already stated that the World-Soul revealed itself in the form of the letter Chi (X); by which he meant that figure described in the heavens by the intersecting orbits of the sun and the planetary ecliptic. Since through this double orbit all the movements of the heavenly powers are determined, so all “becoming” and all life depend on it, and thus we can understand the statement that the World-Soul appears in the form of an X, or a cross.

The cross can also stand for the wondrous Aeon on whom depends the ordering and life of the world, and thus Horos-Stauros appears here as the first redeemer of Sophia from her passions, and as the orderer of the creation of the world which now begins. Naturally, then, the figure of Horos-Stauros was often assimilated to that of the Christian Redeemer. We possibly find echoes of this in the Gospel of Peter, where the Cross itself is depicted as speaking and even floating out of the tomb.


Horos was kind of a special purpose son of the duo at the top of the Ogdoad (which embeds the 7 heavens idea). I would guess the Horos-cross relates to Rosicrucian.[/QUOTE]

This is where ICB sees a major issue.

Christianity cobbled together all sorts of mythologies without ever understanding the meaning of the mythologies it combined.

In fairness, some of the Fathers did have some degree of understanding. However, literalism ruined any chance of understanding.

Harpur makes a good point when he sees one aspect of the need to rise above our animal nature. He sees water as a symbol of the material world, so when the Exodus Israelites supposedly crossed the Reed Sea they were in fact addressing the material side of life. The supposed 40 (there's that number again) days in the wilderness were (my interpretation of what he says) the time we need to learn to differentiate between the material and the spiritual.

Harpur aligns this with Daniel in the lion's den, once again facing our animal nature (the lions) before being transformed by the spiritual.

So simple when we do as the myth-makers did (and do), see it all as metaphorical. Literalism ruined any chance of that.

Whatever else, Frank Herbert understood mythology. This scene sums this issue up perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrCfivcQe48

The distorted voice used by the terrifying Siân Phillips while testing Paul Atreides (descendant of the Greek family) is meant as a hypnotic voice which controls the listener. Different scenes on Youtube demonstrate it further. Atreides is Herbert's Kwisatz Haderach, his version of the promised Messiah.

Have to love this comment:
Now, there is a dimension which I previously overlooked out of ignorance. During this pain testing scene, Paul repeats the phrase "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration." Well, according to my girlfriend, who I showed this scene to, the phrase "the little death" is actually a French term for an orgasm - La petite mort.

Here's another:
The (sand)worms (Shai Hulud) are giant penises and when they open their mouths they become giant vaginas. With teeth! Look at the original covers of the books, particularly the later ones written by Frank Herbert, and the artwork is barely disguised genitalia.
http://boards.straightdope.com...ex.php/t-534574.html

How the **** did I miss all that, having read the entire series??? (And do have enough French, and life experience, to have recognised la petite mort!

Guess Herbert was even better than I suspected :-)

I differ on one point; it is useless to try to come to terms with our animal nature unless and until we first understand our animal nature. Literalism has made that impossible for those so entrapped.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
...Christianity cobbled together all sorts of mythologies without ever understanding the meaning of the mythologies it combined...

In fairness, some of the Fathers did have some degree of understanding. However, literalism ruined any chance of understanding.


The Gnostics though didn't take things literally, they didn't care whether Jesus was historical or not. My favorite modern Gnostic-like group doesn't think Jesus was historical though the fictional Jesus passion play for them was based on a couple historical figures as well as some epic Greek/Egyptian myths.

The Gnostics also morphed in Greek philosophers with ideas they could take as literal. That Plato sun/ecliptic thing could relate to precession cycles related to Golden age/edenic cycles. This is a modern channeling view. Science-wise it's based on the sun having a brown dwarf twin. It's the idea that the solar system cyclically presents an optimal environment for the masses to channel in if we are ready in the hospitality sense. That brown dwarf though would also bowl through the Oort cloud scattering comet pins.

Yeah I liked that Doctor Who Christmas special too. Rose kind of had good symbolism in the RosTau Rose-Cross sense in that out of the Silence (Sige, Horos' Gnostic mom) comes the cross (Horos); the time when the solar system allows time to be a wibbly wobbly ball as the Doctor returns to TV (my Gnostic group calls it a disco ball consciousness for some reason).
 
Posts: 1149 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:

The Gnostics though didn't take things literally, they didn't care whether Jesus was historical or not. My favorite modern Gnostic-like group doesn't think Jesus was historical though the fictional Jesus passion play for them was based on a couple historical figures as well as some epic Greek/Egyptian myths.

The Gnostics also morphed in Greek philosophers with ideas they could take as literal. That Plato sun/ecliptic thing could relate to precession cycles related to Golden age/edenic cycles. This is a modern channeling view. Science-wise it's based on the sun having a brown dwarf twin. It's the idea that the solar system cyclically presents an optimal environment for the masses to channel in if we are ready in the hospitality sense. That brown dwarf though would also bowl through the Oort cloud scattering comet pins.

Yeah I liked that Doctor Who Christmas special too. Rose kind of had good symbolism in the RosTau Rose-Cross sense in that out of the Silence (Sige, Horos' Gnostic mom) comes the cross (Horos); the time when the solar system allows time to be a wibbly wobbly ball as the Doctor returns to TV (my Gnostic group calls it a disco ball consciousness for some reason).


Once again ICB sees the confusion caused when the history of mythology is taken out of context. All too often we see only the symbol, and not the meaning. That is when it becomes impossible to focus on the meaning, the only thing that matters.

Strip all the symbols back to their original meaning.

It is all a very serious word game.

ICB sincerely hopes JR sees this, as it is now beyond reasonable doubt that an ASC makes all the difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_dentata

Hinduism
In Hinduism, the asura Andhaka, son of Shiva and Parvati (but not aware of it), is killed by Shiva when he tries to force the disguised Shiva into surrendering Parvati. Andhaka's son Adi, also an asura, takes the form of Parvati to seduce and kill Shiva with a toothed vagina in order to avenge Andhaka, but is also slain.[4]
Shintoism
In Shintoism the Ainu legend is that a sharp-toothed demon hid inside the vagina of a young woman and emasculated two young men on their wedding nights.[5] Consequently, the woman sought help from a blacksmith who fashioned an iron phallus to break the demon's teeth.[6][7] The legendary iron phallus is considered that enshrined at the Kanayama Shrine in Kawasaki, Japan, and there the popular Festival of the Steel Phallus (かなまら祭り) is held each spring.[8][9][10][11] Also, prostitutes considered that praying at that shrine protected them against sexually transmitted diseases.[12]
Māori mythology
In Māori mythology, the trickster Māui tries to grant mankind immortality by reversing the birth process, turning into a worm and crawling into the goddess of night and death Hine-nui-te-pō's vagina and out through her mouth while she sleeps. His trick is ruined when a pīwakawaka laughs at the sight of his entry, awakening Hine-nui-te-pō, who bites him to death with her obsidian vaginal teeth.
In his book The Wimp Factor, Stephen J. Ducat expresses a similar view, that these myths express the threat sexual intercourse poses for men who, although entering triumphantly, always leave diminished.[14]

Codswallop to that last one, though I do not doubt for a moment there are those who fear this, as we saw.

Think, instead, of the beautiful Buddhist mantra in sand, only complete when it is no more.
https://www.google.com.au/sear...QIJg&biw=826&bih=910

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_mandala
A sand mandala is ritualistically dismantled once it has been completed and its accompanying ceremonies and viewing are finished to symbolize the Buddhist doctrinal belief in the transitory nature of material life.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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Originally posted by bluelamp:
I would guess the Horos-cross relates to Rosicrucian.


Eh? You lost me...I thought the Rosicrucians were a 17th century group.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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Originally posted by Allan:
For the life of me I can't understand why anyone who reads widely would stick with the Jewish version, as it clearly is a political amalgam of much older religions.


What difference does it make? If God is infinite, eternal, and before all things, there is only so much we finite humans can know of God.

And if you mean orthodox and/or churchianity version in your reference to "Jewish version", then you haven't been hearing me.

quote:
Hinduism, on the other hand, despite its flaws, is a far older and more mature religion.


So what? I'm not interested in religion per se. What interests me is the effect the Abrahamic God (not the "Jewish" God) had on Jesus/Joshua/Yehoshua/Yeshua/ The Christ.

quote:
As we saw in the Posse extreme, Ish Milchama is a Man of War, an instrument of division.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24m-KCofYhs
https://www.facebook.com/Micha...osts/479014662220523


Political use and abuse of the gods is nothing new. If there were no gods, they'd find something else to use and abuse; class, wealth, status...

quote:
I so often see people say they open the Bible at random and find the solution to their problems. Serendipitously, when I do that I see nothing but hatred and vicious warfare.


Foolish use of the Bible.

quote:
Hinduism, on the other hand, accepts we are all somewhere on our path to the Ultimate. Whether we are animists, polytheists, monotheists, pantheists, panentheists, or whatever, we will all arrive.


So does the NT. Acts 3:20-21; “And He shall send Jesus our Messiah, which before was preached unto you: Whom heaven must receive (retain) until the restitution (restoration) of ALL THINGS, which God has spoken by the mouth of ALL His Holy Prophets since the world began.”

And then there is John 3:17 “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the WORLD through Him might be saved.”

Romans 8: 38-39 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Romans 11:32-33 “For God has concluded them ALL in disobedience, that He might have Mercy upon ALL. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!”

quote:
[Struggling to see through the tears as I am listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?...t=PLC80DC638A44DC34E I'll have Katherine Jenkins sing Time to say Goodbye at my funeral. Cymru am byth! Have to agree with this comment: Worcester Exchange
Nobody should be that beautiful - It is just not fair to the rest of the human race. Loved her in that Doctor Who episode.
https://www.letssingit.com/sar...lish-version-lgwh942


She is lovely - and with the voice of an angel. Hey, I fully expect to see you on the other side!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
I would guess the Horos-cross relates to Rosicrucian.


Eh? You lost me...I thought the Rosicrucians were a 17th century group.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Cross

quote:
The Rose Cross (also called Rose Croix and Rosy Cross) is a symbol largely associated with the semi-mythical Christian Rosenkreuz, Qabbalist and alchemist and founder of the Rosicrucian Order.[2][3] The Rose Cross is said to be a cross with a white rose at its centre[4] and symbolizes the teachings of a western esoteric tradition formed within the Christian tenets, albeit a Christianity not yet conspicuously in evidence...

It has several meanings, depending on the source. Some groups, such as the Ancient and Mystical Order Rosae Crucis, from a non-sectarian or non-religious view, suggest that the rosy cross predates Christianity, where "the cross represents the human body and the rose represents the individual's unfolding consciousness...

It has also been suggested that the rose represents silence while the cross signifies "salvation, to which the Society of the Rose-Cross devoted itself by teaching mankind the love of God and the beauty of brotherhood, with all that they implied." [18] Others saw the Rosy Cross as a symbol of the human process of reproduction elevated to the spiritual: "The fundamental symbols of the Rosicrucians were the rose and the cross; the rose female and the cross male, both universal phallic [...] As generation is the key to material existence, it is natural that the Rosicrucians should adopt as its characteristic symbols those exemplifying the reproductive processes. As regeneration is the key to spiritual existence, they therefore founded their symbolism upon the rose and the cross, which typify the redemption of man through the union of his lower temporal nature with his higher eternal nature." [19]

It is further a symbol of the Philosopher's Stone, the ultimate product of the alchemist.


So it goes back to a tradition that may predate Christianity and its relation to the gnostic scheme would be Horos as the cross/body and his mom Sige meaning Silence (rose symbolism) as higher order consciousness. Essentially we have female symbolism for higher consciousness and male for body (lower consciousness) and they have to be reconnected.
 
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Originally posted by Allan:
Shintoism
In Shintoism the Ainu legend is that a sharp-toothed demon hid inside the vagina of a young woman and emasculated two young men on their wedding nights.[5] Consequently, the woman sought help from a blacksmith who fashioned an iron phallus to break the demon's teeth.[6][7] The legendary iron phallus is considered that enshrined at the Kanayama Shrine in Kawasaki, Japan, and there the popular Festival of the Steel Phallus (かなまら祭り) is held each spring.[8][9][10][11] Also, prostitutes considered that praying at that shrine protected them against sexually transmitted diseases.[12]


Male - female duality symbolism gets used for lots of things. For iron/steel phallus, I tend to think comet tale-like plasma discharge from a fragment interacting with another fragment especially given the iron/steel meteorite symbolism. The "gods" had lots of sex in the old breaking up giant comet pre-Younger Dryas days.
 
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Originally posted by bluelamp:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Cross

...

So it goes back to a tradition that may predate Christianity and its relation to the gnostic scheme would be Horos as the cross/body and his mom Sige meaning Silence

It is further a symbol of the (rose symbolism) as higher order consciousness. Essentially we have female symbolism for higher consciousness and male for body (lower consciousness) and they have to be reconnected.


Ah ha. Thanks bunches.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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Originally posted by Allan


[Hinduism, on the other hand, despite its flaws, is a far older and more mature religion.[/QUOTE]

quote:
That JR Thang: So what? I'm not interested in religion per se. What interests me is the effect the Abrahamic God (not the "Jewish" God) had on Jesus/Joshua/Yehoshua/Yeshua/ The Christ.


But, since that particular Christ did not exist other than in mythology, along with Horus, Krishna, and so on, surely that only extends the literalism issue?

I'm patient, so will wait till you have read Harpur :-)

(Rather like his comment that Abram meant "A" as in not (think amoral) and Bra(h)m, as in Brahma.)
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by That JR Thang:


Harpur, of course; how careless of me. He is well worth the read.



As we saw in the Posse extreme, Ish Milchama is a Man of War, an instrument of division.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24m-KCofYhs
[url=https://www.facebook.com/MichaelBenDavid.page/posts/479014662220523]https://www.facebook.com/Micha...osts/4790146622

Allan, thanks for the link to Micha'el Ben David. I love Messianic Jewish music and I had never heard of this man before. I don't understand your objections to King of Glory and the Psalm it's based on, though. The Facebook entry mentions how people need to also remember to fear the Lord, which is the beginning of wisdom and makes a lot of sense to me.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
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Originally posted by Allan:
[Hinduism, on the other hand, despite its flaws, is a far older and more mature religion.


quote:
That JR Thang: So what? I'm not interested in religion per se. What interests me is the effect the Abrahamic God (not the "Jewish" God) had on Jesus/Joshua/Yehoshua/Yeshua/ The Christ.


quote:
Allan: But, since that particular Christ did not exist other than in mythology, along with Horus, Krishna, and so on, surely that only extends the literalism issue?


Guess you didn't read far enough into Margaret Barker...and haven't paid close enough attention to my postings regarding the early Abrahamic/Hebrew religion. Too bad 'cause she points out that the sacral King (Anointed/Christ) was "born" in the Holy of Holies, "ritually died" on the Day of Atonement, to arise 3? days later; replaced at some point with the "2 goats" ritual under the High Priest.

All that changed with the Hezekiah/Josiah reformations. The NT/Jesus takes the religion back to the more ancient Abrahamic religion. Just a shame what the literalist have done with it...

quote:
I'm patient, so will wait till you have read Harpur :-)

(Rather like his comment that Abram meant "A" as in not (think amoral) and Bra(h)m, as in Brahma.)


Have you studied the paleo-Hebrew alphabet which practically mirrors the Phoenician alphabet, both of which relate to the Brahmi script?

Take a look at the Aleph:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/alphabet_chart.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_script

Do you see a bull? Hmmm, you really haven't been hearing me...


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Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
[Hinduism, on the other hand, despite its flaws, is a far older and more mature religion.


quote:
That JR Thang: So what? I'm not interested in religion per se. What interests me is the effect the Abrahamic God (not the "Jewish" God) had on Jesus/Joshua/Yehoshua/Yeshua/ The Christ.


quote:
Allan: But, since that particular Christ did not exist other than in mythology, along with Horus, Krishna, and so on, surely that only extends the literalism issue?


Guess you didn't read far enough into Margaret Barker...and haven't paid close enough attention to my postings regarding the early Abrahamic/Hebrew religion. Too bad 'cause she points out that the sacral King (Anointed/Christ) was "born" in the Holy of Holies, "ritually died" on the Day of Atonement, to arise 3? days later; replaced at some point with the "2 goats" ritual under the High Priest.

All that changed with the Hezekiah/Josiah reformations. The NT/Jesus takes the religion back to the more ancient Abrahamic religion. Just a shame what the literalist have done with it...

quote:
I'm patient, so will wait till you have read Harpur :-)

(Rather like his comment that Abram meant "A" as in not (think amoral) and Bra(h)m, as in Brahma.)


Have you studied the paleo-Hebrew alphabet which practically mirrors the Phoenician alphabet, both of which relate to the Brahmi script?

...

Do you see a bull? Hmmm, you really haven't been hearing me...


I do indeed see bull.

Lots of it.

Along with the crescent of the new moon, as I tried to explain to my Ultra-Orthodox jousting partner with reference to Moses' "horns" or rays..

Maybe it is too early and my first coffee is not yet cool enough, which might explain why I feel lost.

Too bad 'cause she points out that the sacral King (Anointed/Christ) was "born" in the Holy of Holies, "ritually died" on the Day of Atonement, to arise 3? days later; replaced at some point with the "2 goats" ritual under the High Priest.

This seems to be straight Egyptian, with a soupçon of Sumerian, reinforcing my notion Hebrew is nothing more than a hotchpotch of much older, more universally relevant, religions.

Why, then, should Hebrew be given such prominence? Surely we should go back to the originals before they were distorted to suit one culture?

All that changed with the Hezekiah/Josiah reformations. The NT/Jesus takes the religion back to the more ancient Abrahamic religion. Just a shame what the literalist have done with it...

Does Barker explain just why just why Hezekiah and Josiah made these important changes? We need to know why.

Have you studied the paleo-Hebrew alphabet which practically mirrors the Phoenician alphabet, both of which relate to the Brahmi script?

As you know, I have long been saying India had a much greater effect than anyone in these religions wants to admit. Was delighted when I first read about the Indus Valley civilisation and its trade with Persia.

Perhaps now you will see why I am so adamant we need to go much further back that 4000 years ago, get back to our real roots.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
I do indeed see bull.

Lots of it.

Along with the crescent of the new moon, as I tried to explain to my Ultra-Orthodox jousting partner with reference to Moses' "horns" or rays..

Maybe it is too early and my first coffee is not yet cool enough, which might explain why I feel lost.


Yeah, 'cause you really aren't attempting to follow where I have gone with this numerous times: It all goes back to the ZODAIC, which is older than the myths, names, character, etc., of the "One True God".

When you take religions back to the Brahman through a mishmash of myths, everything is copasetic, but when I show the linguistic trail from Hebrew (not to mention the golden calf, laver upheld by 12 bronze bulls) to Phoenician to Brahmi, in support of your thesis, all you see is lotsa bull. Sheesh!

I'm growing weary of this because it seems you are attempting to get me to answer for the beliefs of the fundies/posse/churchianity types, when you should be fully aware by now that I hold no part in that.

quote:
Too bad 'cause she points out that the sacral King (Anointed/Christ) was "born" in the Holy of Holies, "ritually died" on the Day of Atonement, to arise 3? days later; replaced at some point with the "2 goats" ritual under the High Priest.

This seems to be straight Egyptian, with a soupçon of Sumerian, reinforcing my notion Hebrew is nothing more than a hotchpotch of much older, more universally relevant, religions.

Why, then, should Hebrew be given such prominence? Surely we should go back to the originals before they were distorted to suit one culture?


So what if it appears "straight Egyptian"? If it all goes back to the ZODAIC there should/would be common ground, no?

quote:
All that changed with the Hezekiah/Josiah reformations. The NT/Jesus takes the religion back to the more ancient Abrahamic religion. Just a shame what the literalist have done with it...

Does Barker explain just why just why Hezekiah and Josiah made these important changes? We need to know why.


Well, since confessional documentation is in short supply, all one can do is look at the known political/religious situation of the time, and track the changes in the religious texts before and after the change. Since Deuteronomy seems to have been written during the Josiah reign, therein lies the bulk of the changes - along with known garbling of particular texts (especially Psalms) and redactions to other texts in order demonize other gods and idols.

According to Barker, it would appear that the High Priest pressured the Kings (starting with Hezekiah) to make changes to the religion in order to become monotheistic and to separate themselves from neighboring religious cultures for the purpose of confining worship (and attendant financial gain to Jerusalem). And then there is the bit about Josiah being PIERCED by an arrow (2 Chron 35:20-24). There is no Egyptian claim to have been the one who killed Josiah (which was their custom when killing persons of importance). That, along with the admonition that "they will look on him whom they have pierced" leaves the one who pierced him to be one of his own men while in battle since it was not to be expected that the Egyptians would halt their army (which was on its way to fight the Assyrians), to attend Josiah's funeral in Jerusalem.

Per Barker: "In the future, warned the prophet, they would regret the killing of Josiah. The restored House of David would be once more like the angel of the LORD with his people. Such a reading of Zechariah would explain why the D writer omitted the 'piercing' that killed Josiah, and it would also explain why the passage was used as a Christian proof text (Jn 19:37; Rev 1:7). It would also suggest that Josiah had been a puppet of the 'reformers', and was killed by his own people in revenge for the purges, for the Chronicler does NOT say whose archers shot the king. ...
Ezekiel recorded all this turmoil as a lament for the princes of Israel and for the Mother [Wisdom] who had lost ALL HER ROYAL SONS. This cannot have been a lament for one particular queen-mother, as the last kings in Jerusalem had several mothers; it was a lament for The Lady [Wisdom]."

quote:
Perhaps now you will see why I am so adamant we need to go much further back that 4000 years ago, get back to our real roots.


Try the ZODIAC.

Just for grins and a little light reading:
http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/zodiac.htm

And according to
https://www.astrologers.com/about/history
"An ancient art/science, astrology antedates all of recorded history. Its influence reaches back to the time when gods are said to have walked and talked with men. It was studied and practiced by all the great nations of antiquity and predates the sacred writings of nearly all religions and philosophies."

A little more depth:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta12.htm


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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