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Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
I wouldn't say there's nothing like The Brahman in Judeo-Christianity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinianism#Synopsis
According to Irenaeus, the Valentinians believed that at the beginning there was a Pleroma (literally, a 'fullness'). At the centre of the Pleroma was the primal Father or Bythos, the beginning of all things who, after ages of silence and contemplation, projected thirty Aeons, heavenly archetypes... Man, the highest being in this material world, participates in both the spiritual and the material nature...


True that. And our dear Allan should be aware of that since he has read and recommended The Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur.

We should all be aware that Christianity changed considerably once the Roman political system started managing it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Does the God versus the Christian Devil concept arise from a far-ancient universal concept of good behaviour versus bad behaviour in the small hunter-gatherer tribes?

Think of God versus Satan, Ahura Mazda versus Angra Mainyu, and, of course, the Gnostic Original Creator versus the demi-urge.

Then I saw a brief mention of a similar conflict between The Brahman and the lesser Brahma.

We all know how the real meanings of ancient mythologies, metaphorical spiritual symbols, legends were all too often lost as they were adapted to suit changing environments.

As you know, my primary interest is in humanity long before we developed the concept of deities (except maybe the Rainbow Serpent).

Way back then, the only concern was managing human behaviour to ensure the survival of the tribe. ...


Yes, we are all fully aware of your biases! But you are equally aware that I'm not convinced that the gods were developed to play a part in ensuring the survival of the tribe.


quote:
(My GP is on vacation, and I had fun with his replacement, a young woman whose partner is into NLP. I'm hoping she will agree at some time that he and I share a pint or three of Guinness. I told her my four BP medications have now been reduced to one because I followed your(?) advice to start on beetroot tablets.)


Really glad the beetroot is working out for you! I'm still trying to get my delicate intestines to get used to it. I continue to mix a little with some pomegranate juice every now and then, but I'd love nothing better than to be able to take enough to get off this BP med.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Unfortunately, I see the story of Eden more of a story than a history, so I can’t take what I posted too much farther, other than to say I think it is a simple story about the. Observance of our natural process of growing up, and it isn’t particularly complex at all. I can see it being valid without a god creating the universe at all.


Unfortunately?

Why not fortunately?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
While accepting its positives, I am in no way a fan of the Bible. Think of JR's Barker information. Too many obvious man-made behaviour-control mechanisms; too many discrepancies which the later editors failed to catch...

Ancients knew one thing for sure: they were alive, they needed to protect that life, and they MUST reproduce.

For them, all we had was the Life Force and the programmed Need to Survive.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenia_(Greek)

quote:
Xenia consists of two basic rules:

The respect from host to guest. The host must be hospitable to the guest and provide him/her with food, drink, bath and gifts when they leave. It is not polite to ask questions until the guest has finished the meal provided to them.
The respect from guest to host. The guest must be courteous to the host and not be a burden. The guest should also provide a gift if they have one.[2]
Xenia was considered to be particularly important in ancient times when people thought gods mingled among them. If one had poorly played host to a stranger, there was the risk of incurring the wrath of a god disguised as the stranger.


https://reformjudaism.org/lear...iety-its-hospitality

quote:
Whereas welcoming the outsider is the biblical underpinnning of so many Genesis narratives, this sacred principle is not always preeminent because the Bible is a human book that not only promotes ideals, but also notes the failure to live up to them. Vayeira provides such a contrast between depravity and disregard for outsiders on one hand, and kindness, generosity, and hospitality to strangers on the other.

In the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Torah comments: “The outcry of [za’akat] Sodom and Gomorrah — how great it is, and their crime [chatatam] — how grave it is!” (Genesis 18:20). However, this text offers no further elucidation of sins committed by the citizens of these doomed cities. In contrast, the Torah is clear that a previous society of evildoers, the generation of the flood, was destroyed because “the earth was filled with lawlessness [chamas]” (Genesis 6:11).

The remembrance of the merciless and cruel behavior of the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah who were hardened to kindness and compassion is echoed in the words of the Prophet Ezekiel:

Only this was the sin of your sister Sodom: arrogance! She and her daughters had plenty of bread and untroubled tranquility; yet she did not support the poor and the needy. In their haughtiness, they committed abomination before Me … (Ezekiel 16:49-50)


Myths and the Bible both have the same main message in spite of people playing with the words over time for not so good reasons. The simple message is that if you don't have hospitality to strangers then cataclysms will literally happen. It's built in via the future effects past alpha to omega physics that makes sure life shows up in the first place. The ancients knew it and the ancients were correct.

As for how they knew it, there's of course simply observing cause and effect but there is also the future effects past causality timeless channeling kind of way:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ligion_and_mythology

quote:
The rituals that are performed enable the aborigine to return to the womb of all time which is another word for "Dream Time". It allows the spirit to be connected once more to all nature, to all their ancestors, and to their own personal meaning and place within the scheme of things. "The Dreamtime is a return to the real existence for the aborigine". "Life in time is simply a passing phase – a gap in eternity". It has a beginning and it has an end. "The experience of Dreamtime, whether through ritual or from dreams, flowed through into the life in time in practical ways". "The individual who enters the Dreamtime feels no separation between themselves and their ancestors". "The strengths and resources of the timeless enter into what is needed in the life of the present". "The future is less uncertain because the individual feels their life as a continuum linking past and future in unbroken connection". Through Dreamtime the limitations of time and space are overcome.
 
Posts: 1149 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
Here to stay...
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Does the God versus the Christian Devil concept arise from a far-ancient universal concept of good behaviour versus bad behaviour in the small hunter-gatherer tribes?

Think of God versus Satan, Ahura Mazda versus Angra Mainyu, and, of course, the Gnostic Original Creator versus the demi-urge.

Then I saw a brief mention of a similar conflict between The Brahman and the lesser Brahma.

We all know how the real meanings of ancient mythologies, metaphorical spiritual symbols, legends were all too often lost as they were adapted to suit changing environments.

As you know, my primary interest is in humanity long before we developed the concept of deities (except maybe the behaviour to ensure the survival of the tribe. ...


Yes, we are all fully aware of your biases! But you are equally aware that I'm not convinced that the gods were developed to play a part in ensuring the survival of the tribe.


Well Allan is into the Dream Time myths which as mentioned in my previous response to Allan includes ancestors in a timeless continuum linking past and future. Those are literally our gods/angels. We all emanated from the Planck scale Brahman/Bythos/Ein Sof/Zurvan. We are all relatives. I added Zurvan since via Wikipedia "the divinity Zurvan is a First Principle (primordial creator deity) who engendered equal-but-opposite twins, Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu."

We are at a far lower energy level than the Planck scale. We aren't going to have any Channeling/Prophecy/Dream Time relationship with a Planck scale Brahman/Bythos/Ein Sof/Zurvan. But we do channel our "ancestors" so who are they? Well they are everything, past and future including rocks and plants but those aren't very interesting Prophecy sources.

The timeless Dream Time realm includes access to our materialistic Einsten/Minkowski spacetime but it's obviously more since Einstein/Minkowski spacetime is what we observe daily aka it's not "a timeless continuum linking past and future". It is math-wise a conformal spacetime (aka it allows time travel). In that conformal spacetime, it is not surprising that our ancestors would be different than us aka god/angel-like. It should also not be surprising that when we humans go there after death; we will still find good vs evil since we obviously have it when we humans died and it does not magically disappear just because of death.

It should also not be surprising that once in the timeless realm, our god-like ancestors evolve more towards good. You get what is called in comparative mythology, a divine council. You have evolved good beings, you have less evolved good beings, and you have less evolved bad beings:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/i...cseen.html#msg265741

quote:
The sky father, Zeus, in Homeric epic, judge and ruler of the cosmos, supports the hero and guides his destiny by presiding over divine councils involving the hero, rather than personally intervening on his behalf.

A mentor god defends and advises the hero, speaks on his behalf at divine councils, and personally appears to him in theophany.

A third god places obstacles in his path, speaks against him at divine councils, and causes the deaths of others around the hero, a divine wrath.

The three gods suggest a legal configuration in which the sky father is judge, the mentor god a defense attorney, and the wrathful god a prosecuting attorney.

The three typical functions, and the gods who serve them, are already visible in Gilgamesh. Anu is the sky father who presides over divine councils, and supports Gilgamesh but does not appear to him in person.
 
Posts: 1149 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Well Allan is into the Dream Time myths which as mentioned in my previous response to Allan includes ancestors in a timeless continuum linking past and future. Those are literally our gods/angels. We all emanated from the Planck scale Brahman/Bythos/Ein Sof/Zurvan. We are all relatives. I added Zurvan since via Wikipedia "the divinity Zurvan is a First Principle (primordial creator deity) who engendered equal-but-opposite twins, Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu."

We are at a far lower energy level than the Planck scale. We aren't going to have any Channeling/Prophecy/Dream Time relationship with a Planck scale Brahman/Bythos/Ein Sof/Zurvan. But we do channel our "ancestors" so who are they? Well they are everything, past and future including rocks and plants but those aren't very interesting Prophecy sources.

The timeless Dream Time realm includes access to our materialistic Einsten/Minkowski spacetime but it's obviously more since Einstein/Minkowski spacetime is what we observe daily aka it's not "a timeless continuum linking past and future". It is math-wise a conformal spacetime (aka it allows time travel). In that conformal spacetime, it is not surprising that our ancestors would be different than us aka god/angel-like. It should also not be surprising that when we humans go there after death; we will still find good vs evil since we obviously have it when we humans died and it does not magically disappear just because of death.


Due to a few experiences I can relate to some of this, especially the all being relatives part.

quote:
It should also not be surprising that once in the timeless realm, our god-like ancestors evolve more towards good. You get what is called in comparative mythology, a divine council. You have evolved good beings, you have less evolved good beings, and you have less evolved bad beings:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/i...cseen.html#msg265741

[QUOTE]The sky father, Zeus, in Homeric epic, judge and ruler of the cosmos, supports the hero and guides his destiny by presiding over divine councils involving the hero, rather than personally intervening on his behalf.

A mentor god defends and advises the hero, speaks on his behalf at divine councils, and personally appears to him in theophany.

A third god places obstacles in his path, speaks against him at divine councils, and causes the deaths of others around the hero, a divine wrath.

The three gods suggest a legal configuration in which the sky father is judge, the mentor god a defense attorney, and the wrathful god a prosecuting attorney.

The three typical functions, and the gods who serve them, are already visible in Gilgamesh. Anu is the sky father who presides over divine councils, and supports Gilgamesh but does not appear to him in person.


Ah yeah, ain't it funny how that trinity thing keeps showing up!

Lead us not into temptation

Deliver us from the evil

Christ is our mediator...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Unfortunately, I see the story of Eden more of a story than a history, so I can’t take what I posted too much farther, other than to say I think it is a simple story about the. Observance of our natural process of growing up, and it isn’t particularly complex at all. I can see it being valid without a god creating the universe at all.


Unfortunately?

Why not fortunately?


The unfortunately was because it sort of ends what might be a debate
 
Posts: 12689 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Unfortunately, I see the story of Eden more of a story than a history, so I can’t take what I posted too much farther, other than to say I think it is a simple story about the. Observance of our natural process of growing up, and it isn’t particularly complex at all. I can see it being valid without a god creating the universe at all.


Unfortunately?

Why not fortunately?


The unfortunately was because it sort of ends what might be a debate


WHAT?

You chicken?-)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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Just checked my email and have heard from both Mary Jean and Steve!

Both are fine. Mary Jean isn't quite dancing yet, but her foot is doing better.

Steve sounds much better, although he is aware that it has been almost 1 month to the day since he lost Marianne. Says he's almost up to joining us here and asked for the URL so that he might drop by and read through some of the posts.

I'm hopeful and then some!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
Picture of Reed N D Dark
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Unfortunately, I see the story of Eden more of a story than a history, so I can’t take what I posted too much farther, other than to say I think it is a simple story about the. Observance of our natural process of growing up, and it isn’t particularly complex at all. I can see it being valid without a god creating the universe at all.


Unfortunately?

Why not fortunately?




The unfortunately was because it sort of ends what might be a debate


WHAT?

You chicken?-)


I didn’t think so, but I can’t really defend literalism, so I wasn’t sure What was left to debate. I kinda like the concept of no god needed to create earth. There seems to be a need afterwards, but then I came from a study of Tillich where God is the name we give to what is at the core of our being, and that which gives meaning to our lives. And yes, it is subject to change.
 
Posts: 12689 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
Never goes away...
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Just checked my email and have heard from both Mary Jean and Steve!

Both are fine. Mary Jean isn't quite dancing yet, but her foot is doing better.

Steve sounds much better, although he is aware that it has been almost 1 month to the day since he lost Marianne. Says he's almost up to joining us here and asked for the URL so that he might drop by and read through some of the posts.

I'm hopeful and then some!


I think baby steps are good, and he may come and go for a while. But don’t we all, sort of!
 
Posts: 12689 | Location: Central PA | Mbr Since: 05-14-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah we need to mainly work on ourselves before we can even dream of getting "reconnected". As much grief as Paul takes for being so focused on himself being wretched due to desires of the flesh; he had a good point for the planet as a whole.


Now you're talking!


Interesting that it seems neither of you is prepared to open your minds with entheogens ;-)

The Judaeo-Christian-Islamic religion is but one single source as a way of finding the right path.

Unfortunately, it has been taken over and is now dominated by both politicians (starting, of course, with the politically astute Constantine) and the priest class, which means it has become a dead end unless someone can find a way of resurrecting it. All one need do is compare the growth of atheism in the West (though I do have my reservations about the loss of the spiritual path revealed to us by the deific gift of entheogens).

Am working on it, however have yet to design letter-sound groupings which will enable Westerners to break away from the deeply entrenched Eurocentrism.

Should really be easy enough for this Scot, given that those Scouse Beatles lads had no difficulty at all.

Yet somehow, despite centuries of being warned about our egotistical religious faith that we in the West know it all, we have yet to overcome our egos.

Could it be any simpler?

Somehow??? the Life Force began.

Somehow??? it had the means of sustaining that Life Force.

For me, those are questions Science must answer.

Under this Life Force guidance, life itself evolved.

This led to the existence of life forms which fed on other life forms. The solution for that implies the creation of neuron modules, and that is when the fun really starts.

Our entire, complete, existence, yours and mine and all the rest, comes down to nothing more than the environments creating an infinite range of neuron modules to protect the Life Force, aka God, itself.

Time has proven our egos could never permit most of us to rest with that essential core.

Instead, we have created complicated religions, philosophies, and other exciting notions which give us plenty to do after the sun sets -- in the West, of course -- and we can occupy our minds with intense discussions in the darkness of night.

http://www.theaustralian.com.a...76307debc9ddcb845539
Materialism, the most boring as well as the least accurate way of experiencing the world and recording experience, is the dominant mindset of the Western intelligentsia in our day.
AN Wilson
The Book of the People, 2016
One cannot have any worthwhile picture of the future unless one realises how much we have lost by the decay of Christianity.
George Orwell, 1944
Australia is about to become an atheist nation. The (2016) census shows us that barely half the population identifies as Christian while nearly a third nominates no religion. The numbers of believers will be bolstered by immigration but the trend is unmistakable. The old beliefs are dying out.
Our trek to radical unbelief follows much of western Europe. The same trends are evident in the US. Though religious belief is stronger there, it has lost the elites and over time elite opinion leads public opinion.
The eclipse of Christianity will be like the eclipse of the sun. Darkness will be the result. Will it be a temporary darkness or a long night of the Western soul?
In abandoning God, we are about to embark on one of the most radical social experiments in Western history. It is nothing short of the reordering of human nature. Short of war, nothing is as consequential.
...For a time we will continue to live off the declining ethical and cultural capital of our heritage of 2000 years of Christianity and more than 3000 years of the Judeo-Christian tradition. But as British writer Arnold Lunn once remarked, we are living off the scent of an empty vase. As we cut ourselves off ever more comprehensively from the roots of our civilisation, our civilisation will be damaged.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Maybe the idea of the deity was to teach us hard-headed and self-centered Homosapiens to learn about our place in the universe, how our behavior affects it, and to treat the earth as our home rather than a garbage dump to become the next generation's problem? At some point we are going to have to buckle down and come to grips with it; to learn "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" is the only way, or we are going to have to shoulder the consequences of our selfish destruction of future generations.

And BTW, Genesis 2:15 states "The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it." So, even according to the Bible, we were not placed here with dominion without responsibility. But the self-centered tend to grab the dominion and overlook the responsibility.


Except that, while they had nothing like our information knowledge and did make mistakes, under the Rainbow Serpent tens of thousands of years earlier the Australians were doing exactly that, infinitely better than we are today.

On their Walkabout, they would move into a new area, take enough over time to have a great feed, then left plenty behind to ensure that when they returned much later the region was fully restored. Even saw a suggestion they were the first "farmers", transplanting food crops into more-fertile soil.

I am struggling to come to terms with the notion that a deity which first introduced itself little more than 4000 years ago is preferred over earlier deities which gave us far better leads on how to sustain the Life Force/God.

Why is it so?
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark
I didn’t think so, but I can’t really defend literalism, so I wasn’t sure What was left to debate. I kinda like the concept of no god needed to create earth. There seems to be a need afterwards, but then I came from a study of Tillich where God is the name we give to what is at the core of our being, and that which gives meaning to our lives. And yes, it is subject to change.


As Todd Tremlin says in his Minds and Gods, our creation of deities was a logical expansion on the reality that everything the hunter-gatherers had and used, tools, weapons, dilly bags, all food, and whatever clothing and shelter they made, came to them directly from human agents, so it made sense to hypothesise that everything we then failed to understand came from super-human agents.

I came from a study of Tillich where God is the name we give to what is at the core of our being

Is that any different from what I have been saying all along?

That "core" is the Life Force which began it all.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
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quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
quote:
Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Unfortunately, I see the story of Eden more of a story than a history, so I can’t take what I posted too much farther, other than to say I think it is a simple story about the. Observance of our natural process of growing up, and it isn’t particularly complex at all. I can see it being valid without a god creating the universe at all.


Unfortunately?

Why not fortunately?




The unfortunately was because it sort of ends what might be a debate


WHAT?

You chicken?-)


I didn’t think so, but I can’t really defend literalism, so I wasn’t sure What was left to debate. I kinda like the concept of no god needed to create earth. There seems to be a need afterwards, but then I came from a study of Tillich where God is the name we give to what is at the core of our being, and that which gives meaning to our lives. And yes, it is subject to change.


I can't defend literalism either, so we are even!

I don't even bother with 'creation' concepts. It is here and we have to deal with it regardless of how it got here. All the evidence we can possibly have in that regard is finite human's perception via vision or theophany.

And imho, if God is spirit and omnipresent, then we all exist within God and God exists within us. As King David put it, "Where can I flee from your presence?" and "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD. "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD.

One of the biggest issues I have with "churchianity" is that they speak and teach as if God is "up there" or "out there" somewhere. All my siblings have this notion that God is a "physical person" and heaven is a "place" and literally sits on a throne!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah we need to mainly work on ourselves before we can even dream of getting "reconnected". As much grief as Paul takes for being so focused on himself being wretched due to desires of the flesh; he had a good point for the planet as a whole.


Now you're talking!


quote:
Allan: Interesting that it seems neither of you is prepared to open your minds with entheogens ;-)


You and your entheogens! I've known of several people who've experienced some rather phenomenal visions sans entheogens.

quote:
Allan: The Judaeo-Christian-Islamic religion is but one single source as a way of finding the right path.

Unfortunately, it has been taken over and is now dominated by both politicians (starting, of course, with the politically astute Constantine) and the priest class, which means it has become a dead end unless someone can find a way of resurrecting it. All one need do is compare the growth of atheism in the West (though I do have my reservations about the loss of the spiritual path revealed to us by the deific gift of entheogens).


No argument here. Been seein' it and sayin' it myself for some time.

quote:
Allan: Am working on it, however have yet to design letter-sound groupings which will enable Westerners to break away from the deeply entrenched Eurocentrism.

Should really be easy enough for this Scot, given that those Scouse Beatles lads had no difficulty at all.

Yet somehow, despite centuries of being warned about our egotistical religious faith that we in the West know it all, we have yet to overcome our egos.

Could it be any simpler?

Somehow??? the Life Force began.

Somehow??? it had the means of sustaining that Life Force.

For me, those are questions Science must answer.

Under this Life Force guidance, life itself evolved.

This led to the existence of life forms which fed on other life forms. The solution for that implies the creation of neuron modules, and that is when the fun really starts.

Our entire, complete, existence, yours and mine and all the rest, comes down to nothing more than the environments creating an infinite range of neuron modules to protect the Life Force, aka God, itself.

Time has proven our egos could never permit most of us to rest with that essential core.

Instead, we have created complicated religions, philosophies, and other exciting notions which give us plenty to do after the sun sets -- in the West, of course -- and we can occupy our minds with intense discussions in the darkness of night.

http://www.theaustralian.com.a...76307debc9ddcb845539
Materialism, the most boring as well as the least accurate way of experiencing the world and recording experience, is the dominant mindset of the Western intelligentsia in our day.
AN Wilson
The Book of the People, 2016
One cannot have any worthwhile picture of the future unless one realises how much we have lost by the decay of Christianity.
George Orwell, 1944
Australia is about to become an atheist nation. The (2016) census shows us that barely half the population identifies as Christian while nearly a third nominates no religion. The numbers of believers will be bolstered by immigration but the trend is unmistakable. The old beliefs are dying out.
Our trek to radical unbelief follows much of western Europe. The same trends are evident in the US. Though religious belief is stronger there, it has lost the elites and over time elite opinion leads public opinion.
The eclipse of Christianity will be like the eclipse of the sun. Darkness will be the result. Will it be a temporary darkness or a long night of the Western soul?
In abandoning God, we are about to embark on one of the most radical social experiments in Western history. It is nothing short of the reordering of human nature. Short of war, nothing is as consequential.
...For a time we will continue to live off the declining ethical and cultural capital of our heritage of 2000 years of Christianity and more than 3000 years of the Judeo-Christian tradition. But as British writer Arnold Lunn once remarked, we are living off the scent of an empty vase. As we cut ourselves off ever more comprehensively from the roots of our civilisation, our civilisation will be damaged.


Take heart, there are a few who have started the process within the Church. They are writing books promoting "spiritual growth" vice "literalism" and "theology". Your Tom Harpur is but one...

About 40% or so of the Christians of the USA are the "end-timers" and "fundie" types. The end-timers will be forced to reassess their theology when all the people of the 1948 generation is dead. The fundies are losing their congregations through disaffiliation.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
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Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Maybe the idea of the deity was to teach us hard-headed and self-centered Homosapiens to learn about our place in the universe, how our behavior affects it, and to treat the earth as our home rather than a garbage dump to become the next generation's problem? At some point we are going to have to buckle down and come to grips with it; to learn "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" is the only way, or we are going to have to shoulder the consequences of our selfish destruction of future generations.

And BTW, Genesis 2:15 states "The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it." So, even according to the Bible, we were not placed here with dominion without responsibility. But the self-centered tend to grab the dominion and overlook the responsibility.


Except that, while they had nothing like our information knowledge and did make mistakes, under the Rainbow Serpent tens of thousands of years earlier the Australians were doing exactly that, infinitely better than we are today.

On their Walkabout, they would move into a new area, take enough over time to have a great feed, then left plenty behind to ensure that when they returned much later the region was fully restored. Even saw a suggestion they were the first "farmers", transplanting food crops into more-fertile soil.

I am struggling to come to terms with the notion that a deity which first introduced itself little more than 4000 years ago is preferred over earlier deities which gave us far better leads on how to sustain the Life Force/God.

Why is it so?


Because they didn't 'evangelize' and 'church' it.


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Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
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Picture of That JR Thang
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Got a rain-snow mix falling today, but at least it's supposed to get above freezing for the first time in about 10 days!

By Friday when we reach 60 degrees, it's gonna feel like a heat wave!


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Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Here to stay...
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Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
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Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah we need to mainly work on ourselves before we can even dream of getting "reconnected". As much grief as Paul takes for being so focused on himself being wretched due to desires of the flesh; he had a good point for the planet as a whole.


Now you're talking!


Interesting that it seems neither of you is prepared to open your minds with entheogens ;-)


I just pay attention to my favorite channeler who is married to a physicist. No drugs required (like with Dream Time).

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The Judaeo-Christian-Islamic religion is but one single source as a way of finding the right path.

Unfortunately, it has been taken over and is now dominated by both politicians (starting, of course, with the politically astute Constantine)...


Yeah Polycarp ruined Paul's Gnosticism before things even got to Constantine but a lot of Paul's Epistles is actually from Paul.

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Somehow??? the Life Force began.

Somehow??? it had the means of sustaining that Life Force.

For me, those are questions Science must answer.

Under this Life Force guidance, life itself evolved.

This led to the existence of life forms which fed on other life forms. The solution for that implies the creation of neuron modules, and that is when the fun really starts.

Our entire, complete, existence, yours and mine and all the rest, comes down to nothing more than the environments creating an infinite range of neuron modules to protect the Life Force, aka God, itself.


From anesthesia studies, consciousness is just dipole states of neuron atoms in a very large superposition. The dipole state atoms change "thoughts" by passing around loosely held electrons which changes states/charge between plus and minus. At the Brahman Planck scale you have a superposition of unbroken symmetry information. Death sending all those ancestors to Dream Time would be a superposition of massless particles for whom reality is timelessly stretched from past to future. My favorite channeled source refers to itself as us in the future.

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Time has proven our egos could never permit most of us to rest with that essential core.

Instead, we have created complicated religions, philosophies, and other exciting notions which give us plenty to do after the sun sets -- in the West, of course -- and we can occupy our minds with intense discussions in the darkness of night.

http://www.theaustralian.com.a...76307debc9ddcb845539
Materialism, the most boring as well as the least accurate way of experiencing the world and recording experience, is the dominant mindset of the Western intelligentsia in our day.


Yeah matter from consciousness (information) is a much better model. Science like myth/religion can go in wrong directions but you can still find good concepts like theoxeny/hospitality and Brahma/Ein Sof/Zurvan/Bythos for your Planck scale information realm from where big bangs sprout.
 
Posts: 1149 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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Originally posted by Allan:
Ah, m'dear, I can assure you I can compose a case arguing Jesus is the Sacred Mushroom and provide infinitely more evidence than any Christian cleric could provide indicating he is one-third of the Trinity or any another aspect of the deity.


quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Only if you select an average cleric.


How many non-average clerics have you ever met?

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You should know by now that I am persuaded all those myths came via revelation (or as bluelamp calls it, channeling) and from the Zodiac, not necessarily "copied" from one culture to another.


Why do you, of all people, have this pressing need to play word games with me ;-)

You say neether, I say nyther; you say pot8o, I say pot-at-o.

In a real sense we are all saying much the same thing, just using different letter groupings to express our ideas.

Problem is, all those letter groupings carry their own connotations, creating different images in our neuron modules.

Without those environment-driven connotations, are we not essentially saying the same thing?

"Something" lies behind what we think, something essentially identical, yet we debate it because we all have different connotations.

For me, we are driven by the mechanics of the electrical neurons of our individual Brains.

It's the old nature/nurture game-play.

Our nature provides the basics, and I doubt there are any more than half-a-dozen human-nature types. However, our nurture is far more varied, and very often a Type A from one culture can struggle to communicate with an identical Type A brought up in a vastly different nurture/culture.

Rather seems as if my eclectic reading and lifelong interrelationship with a wide variety of other immigrants has made all the difference, does it not? I remember saying that, in my 35 years as a coach, I made many good friends with foreigners in ethnic clubs while my Australian friends simply could not come to terms with them.

Communication becomes so much simpler when we accept it is all about one culturally created set of neuron modules up against a different set of culturally developed neurons.

Life Force, God, Zodiac...whatever.

All the same in the end.

Remaining difference is only whether we accept that "God" really is within us, as the ancients always said. For them, we were created from the very stuff of the deities (especially feminine) themselves.

How, then, can we create rapport with those who believe we were created by the word of a masculine deity?
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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