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Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:


Just lost my next-best Shiraz.

Check this out (lots to read):

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/...ahams-Revolution.htm
The web closed in upon Pettinato when Mr. Tweir, the Syrian Director of Archaeological Research, made the Syrian position clear and attacked Pettinato for not kneeling wholeheartedly to it: "The Zionists ... call all studies concerning the ancient history of the whole Arab region 'biblical studies.' They faked the archaeological, historical studies of the whole region and annexed them to the Jewish traditions. [Pettinato) was not free from Zionist influence."


A real sad day when we can no longer trust the archaeologists to be honest...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
May take some time, but will try to find a Jewish encyclopaedia source which says Abram's king (whoever that was*) saw a star wandering about and asked his advisers (the Magi?) to interpret what it meant.

They told him it portended a fearful rival was newly born or was about to be born. So what did the king do? He ordered the Slaughter of the Innocents, from the new-born boys to those two years old.

Problem was, this rival was the son of an important court official named Terah, whose wife was pregnant. Sure enough, hew had a son.

Fortunately for Terah, one of his servants had a new-born son, so he swapped babies and hid his own son, Abram, in a cave.

*Had fun with my Ultra-Orthodox jousting partner. No matter how hard I tried he flatly refused to identify that king.

Instead, he used the pejorative Nimrod, a Hebrew term for rebel. My mate refused, too, to tell me just who that king rebelled against. Himself?

You know as well as I do that Ur of the Chaldees in the Tanakh is a dead-set anachronism.


You will probably like this book:
The Eliminator: Or, Skeleton Keys to Sacerdotal Secrets by Richard Brodhead Westbrook
https://tinyurl.com/yblxs5kz
@ Google Books
p. 148-9

"We now take up a few Bible stories, and give to them a symbolic instead of an historic interpretation; and for obvious reasons we begin with the alleged progenitor of the Jewish nation, Abraham.

It may or may not be a mere coincidence that by transposing the letters of the name Abraham we have the name Brahma - just as in the old legend of the sacrifice of the daughter of Agamemnon, Iphthigenia, if we divide the syllables into words, Iphthi-genia, we have literally Jephthah's daughter; so, after all, it may be greatly to the credit of Jephthah that the story is fabulous. These curious coincidences are not offered as evidence. It is acknowledged, at least by implication, in the Bible itself that the story of Abram is of Chaldean origin, as his father Terah was a native of Ur of the Chaldees and the alleged patriarch was a Chaldean. Now, these people were great astronomers in very ancient times, and were accustomed to veil their occult science under just such allegorical personifications and fabulous tales as this of Abraham. Paul, or whoever wrote the Epistle credited to him, lets out the whole secret (Gal. 4:22-26): "For it is written Abraham had two sons, one by a bondmaid, the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the free woman was by promise; which things are an allegory," etc. Now if, you carefully read the apostolic explanation of these verses, you will notice that the two sons of Abraham are two covenants, and the bondmaid Hagar represents an Arabian mountain, which by a magical change becomes the same as the city of Jerusalem. The name Abram signifies the "Father of Elevation," which is the astronomical distinction of the planet Saturn, the exaltation of which, with its devious ways, well represents the alleged history of its prototype. The word Chasdim, translated Chaldees, literally means light, and is a professional not a geographical name, and probably refers to the art of magic and the work of astrologers; so that it is more than probable that Abram was not a person, any more than Chasdim was a place."


A note I wrote to myself long ago reads:
“Ur of the Chaldeans” literally means “Light of the Astrologers”
Just don't recall where I got it from...

See also:
http://www.abarim-publications...Ur.html#.Wlvdn4WcFuk


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
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Praise God from whom all blessings flow, my neck just cracked and I no longer have a pinched nerve!

Maybe now I will be able to sleep more than an hour or two at a time. Nice, real nice  WooHoo!    :woohoo:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Settling in...
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JR quoted Harpur, who was quoting Kuhn,
quote:
so the following from "The Pagan Christ" by Tom Harpur is a gold mine: "The truth is that the Gospels are indeed the old manuscripts of the dramatized rituals of the incarnation and resurrection of the sun god Osiris/Horus, rituals that were first Egyptian, later Gnostic and Hellenic, then Hebrew, and finally adopted ignorantly by the Christian movement and transferred to the arena of history. They were not considered history until, in Christian hands, their esoteric meaning had been obscured and the wisdom needed to interpret them non-historically was wanting. Kuhn says quite starkly that we can now state, with little chance of refutation, that the Gospel "life" of Jesus had been described, in substance, at least three thousand years before he came. An Egyptian Jesus had raised an Egyptian Lazarus from the dead at an Egyptian Bethany, with an Egyptian Mary and Martha present, in the scripts of that ancient land about two thousand years B.C.E. We will look at this Lazarus incident in much more detail shortly.


Actually, there is plenty of refutation of Kuhn's claims. He is out on the fringe, to say the least. Please don't tell me you believe this guy...Frown   :(


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Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Settling in...
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JR quoted Massey via Harpur's book:
quote:
The temple of Luxor was built by Amenhotep III, a pharaoh of the eighteenth dynasty. There is a reproduction of the scenes I have just described in their accompanying hieroglyphics in Massey's book "The Historical Jesus and the Mystical Christ" (page 34 of the Kessinger edition). The temple of Luxor is indeed where they are still to be found today. Gerald Massey describes each illustration of the Nativity in great detail.


I would be curious to see what Egyptologists say about those hieroglyphics that Massey claims to be able to interpret.


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Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Settling in...
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JR quotes Harpur
quote:
Unaware that the original mythos of messianic mystery, the virgin motherhood, the incarnation and birth, the life and character, the crucifixion and resurrection of the saviour Son who was the word of all ages, the alpha and omega, was already part of the Egyptian religion since earliest times, the compilers of the New Testament missed the point entirely - that the whole thing was meant allegorically."The Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur


Oh good grief! That is such a bunch of hooey! If anyone missed the point of the NT, it was Tom Harpur. The problem with allegory is it is always in the eye of the person who decides what everything stands for in it. The allegory changes with the person, the era, and the culture.


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Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
JR quotes Harpur
quote:
Unaware that the original mythos of messianic mystery, the virgin motherhood, the incarnation and birth, the life and character, the crucifixion and resurrection of the saviour Son who was the word of all ages, the alpha and omega, was already part of the Egyptian religion since earliest times, the compilers of the New Testament missed the point entirely - that the whole thing was meant allegorically."The Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur


Oh good grief! That is such a bunch of hooey! If anyone missed the point of the NT, it was Tom Harpur. The problem with allegory is it is always in the eye of the person who decides what everything stands for in it. The allegory changes with the person, the era, and the culture.


LOL, somehow I just knew you would like him!

But just wait until you get to Galatians 4:22-26;
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise. 24These things are being taken allegorically: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

I always wonder how literalist's minds can jump right over such things...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
JR quoted Harpur, who was quoting Kuhn,
quote:
so the following from "The Pagan Christ" by Tom Harpur is a gold mine: "The truth is that the Gospels are indeed the old manuscripts of the dramatized rituals of the incarnation and resurrection of the sun god Osiris/Horus, rituals that were first Egyptian, later Gnostic and Hellenic, then Hebrew, and finally adopted ignorantly by the Christian movement and transferred to the arena of history. They were not considered history until, in Christian hands, their esoteric meaning had been obscured and the wisdom needed to interpret them non-historically was wanting. Kuhn says quite starkly that we can now state, with little chance of refutation, that the Gospel "life" of Jesus had been described, in substance, at least three thousand years before he came. An Egyptian Jesus had raised an Egyptian Lazarus from the dead at an Egyptian Bethany, with an Egyptian Mary and Martha present, in the scripts of that ancient land about two thousand years B.C.E. We will look at this Lazarus incident in much more detail shortly.


Actually, there is plenty of refutation of Kuhn's claims. He is out on the fringe, to say the least. Please don't tell me you believe this guy...Frown   :(


Oh, I'm sure there is. But then, there was a time when Christianity was out on the fringe, to say the least.

Don't fret over it; literalists always have a difficult time with the allegorical.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Settling in...
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JR,

That is not an example of allegory. It is called typology.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
JR quoted Massey via Harpur's book:
quote:
The temple of Luxor was built by Amenhotep III, a pharaoh of the eighteenth dynasty. There is a reproduction of the scenes I have just described in their accompanying hieroglyphics in Massey's book "The Historical Jesus and the Mystical Christ" (page 34 of the Kessinger edition). The temple of Luxor is indeed where they are still to be found today. Gerald Massey describes each illustration of the Nativity in great detail.


I would be curious to see what Egyptologists say about those hieroglyphics that Massey claims to be able to interpret.


From about 1870 onwards, Massey became increasingly interested in Egyptology and the similarities that exist between ancient Egyptian mythology and the Gospel stories. He studied the extensive Egyptian records housed in the Assyrian and Egyptology section of the British Museum in London where he worked closely with the curator, Dr. Samuel Birch, and other leading Egyptologists of his day, even learning hieroglyphics at the time the Temple of Horus at Edfu was first being excavated.[2][3][3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey

Samuel Birch (/bɜːrtʃ/; 3 November 1813 – 27 December 1885) was a British Egyptologist and antiquary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Birch


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
JR,

That is not an example of allegory. It is called typology.


Ah, so that is how you skip over it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Settling in...
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JR,

If Harpur can't tell the difference between allegory and typology, then how can you trust his other claims?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vicki
 
Posts: 455 | Location: Idaho | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I pay little attention to Rabbinic views, since imho, they got onboard with the Hezekiah/Josiah revamping of the religion.


Which is why seeing that in 2018 has me worried. How many today live under those teachings?

Are you up to date on Netanyahau's problems and those of his son?
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
A real sad day when we can no longer trust the archaeologists to be honest...


We need to remember that it was Christians setting out to prove the Bible which led to professional archaeology.

Plus ça change...

Since I know why this lot do it, it is good to see how they do it.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I pay little attention to Rabbinic views, since imho, they got onboard with the Hezekiah/Josiah revamping of the religion.


Which is why seeing that in 2018 has me worried. How many today live under those teachings?

Are you up to date on Netanyahau's problems and those of his son?
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vicki:
JR,

If Harpur can't tell the difference between allegory and typology, then how can you trust his other claims?


Vicki, with just a quick look, all the following English versions of the Bible use the word Allegorically/Allegorized/Allegory from the Greek word allēgorein in their translation. So if Paul didn't know the meaning of the word allēgorein he was using, how can you trust him?
Young's Literal Translation
World English Bible
Webster's Bible Translation
English Revised Version
Darby Bible Translation
Douay-Rheims Bible
American Standard Version
King James Version
Jubilee Bible 2000
New American Standard
International Standard Version
Berean Literal Bible
English Standard Version


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
Picture of That JR Thang
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
I pay little attention to Rabbinic views, since imho, they got onboard with the Hezekiah/Josiah revamping of the religion.

Which is why seeing that in 2018 has me worried. How many today live under those teachings?

Lots.

quote:
Are you up to date on Netanyahau's problems and those of his son?

Can't say that I am. Will take a look.

Sheesh!
https://www.timesofisrael.com/...is-family-explained/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fence straddlers get a crotch full of splinters -- Granny
 
Posts: 6590 | Location: Atlanta | Mbr Since: 05-01-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
You will probably like this book:
The Eliminator: Or, Skeleton Keys to Sacerdotal Secrets by Richard Brodhead Westbrook
https://tinyurl.com/yblxs5kz
@ Google Books
p. 148-9

"We now take up a few Bible stories, and give to them a symbolic instead of an historic interpretation; and for obvious reasons we begin with the alleged progenitor of the Jewish nation, Abraham.

It may or may not be a mere coincidence that by transposing the letters of the name Abraham we have the name Brahma...


Did you see my post suggesting otherwise?

A-Brahm -- "a" as in amoral, not Brahma.

quote:
It is acknowledged, at least by implication, in the Bible itself that the story of Abram is of Chaldean origin, as his father Terah was a native of Ur of the Chaldees and the alleged patriarch was a Chaldean.


Problem is the dates. The Chaldeans took over much, much later than Abraham, which means the scribes were writing AFTER the Chaldeans had been assimilated into Babylonia but their earlier rule was still in memory.

Chaldea[1] (/kælˈdiːə/) or Chaldaea[2] was a Semitic-speaking nation which existed between the late 10th or early 9th and mid-6th centuries BC, after which it and its people were absorbed and assimilated into Babylonia.[3] It was located in the marshy land of the far southeastern corner of Mesopotamia and briefly came to rule Babylon
...The short-lived 11th dynasty of the Kings of Babylon (6th century BC) is conventionally known to historians as the Chaldean Dynasty, although the last rulers, Nabonidus and his son Belshazzar, were from Assyria.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaldea
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Praise God from whom all blessings flow, my neck just cracked and I no longer have a pinched nerve!

Maybe now I will be able to sleep more than an hour or two at a time. Nice, real nice  WooHoo!    :woohoo:


I don't have that emoji source, it seems.
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
Devoted...
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Wish I had the energy and limberness of your CB!!!


CB certainly has taken three of my best, but I suspect a fourth as She is still on the roof carolling We are the Champions .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=926coIwQnDw
 
Posts: 5046 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Mbr Since: 05-05-2017Report This Post
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