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The Mob's Pub & Coffee Shop Part III
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quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
Yeah when Northern Cro-Magnon man hung out with Neanderthals around that 50,000 years ago he may have had light in his veins as the legends say but that light didn't last and mushrooms might then be useful in a single dose; more and you might end up with health problems like McKenna.
Plus not all tune into what Zoroaster did (who is said to be a source for Pythagoras). You have to tune in to something useful not just have a rave or sea of faces experience. You need a Socrates "divine sign". 300,000 years ago perhaps the light from the sky was enough none needed in the veins and perhaps it will be again.
Moses and Abraham are often doublet stories so I could see them both as Egyptian (or ethnic Mittani/Hittite/Syrian in Egypt). Moses gets related to Akhenaten's pharaoh by some which if related to Abraham would make Sarah into Nefertiti. I could see Abraham/Moses as Ay-based since Ay and Nefertiti are suspected of being related and of Mittani/Syrian origin.
Yeah Paul behind the scenes resulted in Gnosticism which is quite different than the public orthodox views or even his own public writing.

Of course, we need to remember that Zarathustra was conceived only after his mother and father had eaten or drunk haoma.

We need to remember, too, that the Abrahamic religions clearly all began with entheogens, which were later banned for, no doubt, the reason that if the hoi polloi all understood how to use entheogens to the best effect they would have no need for priests, rabbis, popes, archbishops, or ministers. I rather suspect that today's genus Ephedra was yesterday's cannabis.

Interesting to note: In March 2014 the Grand Ayatollah Rohani from Iran issued a formal legal ruling (that is, a fatwa) determining the use of entheogens and psychoactive substances to be licit and thus permissible (ḥalāl) for Shi’i Muslims provided it be under the direction and supervision of qualified experts (ahl al-ikhtiṣāṣ), and that, moreover, such plant substances as a rule do not impair the mind.[1][2]

That, along with some other information I have used for my own purposes comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haoma

Another thing which keeps popping up synchronicitously for me is the seemingly ignored connection between Persia/Iran and north-west India, the Indus Valley civilisation which died a death around the time of the creation of the Abrahamic religions along with, as you have seen, the Mittites, [also the Hurrians], and others from the region around today's Turkey; the importance of the inundation of the Black Sea and its connection with Noah's flood is not something the orthodox want to talk about. All anyone wants to talk about are the Hebrews/Jews, when in fact the Indo-European immigrants/invaders from the steppes have had far more important impact.
https://www.khanacademy.org/hu...tites/a/the-hittites

Then there is:
https://sites01.lsu.edu/facult.../Steven-McGuire1.pdf
Finally, Plato overtly establishes an analogy to the mysteries at Eleusis near the end of Diotima's speech (as relayed by Socrates), when he has her say that "even you, Socrates, could probably come to be initiated [myētheiēs] into these rites of love [erōtika]. But as for the purpose of these rites when they are done correctly--that is the final and highest mystery [ta de telea kai epoptika]" (209e-210a). The Greek verb, myētheiēs, is related to the noun, myesis, which was the first level of initiation into the Eleusinian mysteries. And epoptika, here translated as "the highest mystery," is related to the noun, epoptēs, which means in general "watcher" or "witness," but is also the name for those who have achieved the highest level of initiation in the Eleusinian mysteries. Epoptēs appears not to have been used in reference to any other mystery rite.4 [4] Thus, Plato is referencing specifically the highest revelation in the Eleusinian mysteries, the most popular mysteries in Athens (they were simply called the mysteries [ta mysteria]5 [5] ). Plato choice of language, then, reveals that he expects his audience (and Socrates expects his interlocutors) to associate the content of Diotima's speech with the Eleusinian mysteries.

Uneducated use of any substance can be dangerous. However, I can't accept that Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Pythagoras and all the other initiated Greek philosophers were not fully educated in the use of entheogens. Today's prescription drugs are proven killers if not used wisely. but our governments are hardly likely to treat them in the same way they treat entheogens.

Same goes for this mob:

https://www.theguardian.com/co...puter-revolution-lsd
 
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Originally posted by Allan:
Of course, we need to remember that Zarathustra was conceived only after his mother and father had eaten or drunk haoma.

We need to remember, too, that the Abrahamic religions clearly all began with entheogens, which were later banned for, no doubt, the reason that if the hoi polloi all understood how to use entheogens to the best effect they would have no need for priests, rabbis, popes, archbishops, or ministers. I rather suspect that today's genus Ephedra was yesterday's cannabis...


Another thing which keeps popping up synchronicitously for me is the seemingly ignored connection between Persia/Iran and north-west India...

Uneducated use of any substance can be dangerous. However, I can't accept that Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Pythagoras and all the other initiated Greek philosophers were not fully educated in the use of entheogens. Today's prescription drugs are proven killers if not used wisely. but our governments are hardly likely to treat them in the same way they treat entheogens.
Zoroaster kind of unites Hindu, Abrahamic, and Greek religions/philosophy so I'm not overly worried about differences. Modern known entheogen users tend to be too vague for me; I can get more out of Zoroaster. I love Timothy Leary; he was great at personality theory; he's just too vague when it comes to what the other realms are that he experienced. You need a researcher like Stafford Betty (whom Vicki took courses from) to get to details:

https://www.huffpost.com/author/sbetty-559

quote:
Stafford Betty earned his Ph.D. from Fordham University, where he specialized in Asian religious thought and Sanskrit. Today he is a professor of world religions at California State University, Bakersfield, and has evolved as one of the country’s most acclaimed experts on the afterlife. In 2011 he published The Afterlife Unveiled, his most popular book. A more recent publication, Heaven and Hell Unveiled (2014), is an in-depth description of spirit life, with an emphasis on how spirits progress from lower to higher planes. His eleventh book, When Did You Ever Become Less by Dying? Afterlife: The Evidence, appeared in 2016. He blogs for The Huffington Post in the hope of reaching a broad audience. He has published three novels, most recently The Severed Breast (2016), a historical saga about Thomas the Apostle’s failed attempt to convert India to Christianity. He is often praised for his engaging, non-technical writing style.
 
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Originally posted by bluelamp:
(Stafford Betty) blogs for The Huffington Post in the hope of reaching a broad audience. He has published three novels, most recently The Severed Breast (2016), a historical saga about Thomas the Apostle’s failed attempt to convert India to Christianity. He is often praised for his engaging, non-technical writing style.

Taking me a while to get my act into gear, so again my apologies.

Interesting to see you say: Modern known entheogen users tend to be too vague for me;

That is a major part of my problem with channelling.

As you know, my own experience with three channellers created nothing, one even saying the best she could do was to teach me. All three were straight trained or had natural skills in reading body language, and this poker player knows how to work that.

All the reviews I read on Betty came from people who want to believe or already believe and are looking for confirmation.


As we all do, of course Hug   :hug:

I'm kicking myself, because I lucked on to a Betty interview which, for me, confirmed that he was interpreting personal experiences with what he wanted.

Then my Synchronicity Guide led me to the next interview on that list, with different contributors.

One was a neuropsychologist, and his discussions on patients experiencing the supernatural was more in line with my own bias; we need to understand how our brain works before we can understand why it does what it does.

This was confirmed in Pauwels and Bergier's The Morning of the Magicians. If you have not read it, I highly recommend it, especially their chapter on An Open Conspiracy, which for me should be required reading in all university science programs.

Soon as I find time I will watch
Watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejLYs0LxM1Q,
 
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Originally posted by Allan
Interesting to see you say: Modern known entheogen users tend to be too vague for me;

That is a major part of my problem with channelling.

As you know, my own experience with three channellers created nothing, one even saying the best she could do was to teach me. All three were straight trained or had natural skills in reading body language, and this poker player knows how to work that.

Need someone as good as Zoroaster only with a modern knowledge starting point. Here's a good Zoroaster write-up.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/z...ianism/spacetime.asp

Hindu Chakras, Lokas, Sri Tantra; Jewish Sephirot, 7 heavens; 4th Way Enneagram, octaves; Zoroaster Amesha Spenta; Ouija board densities all fit on the same plottable footprint. Leary's circumplex fits too. Just need it in more modern spacetime math and information terms than Zoroasters infinities and fire, water, air, earth...

The Amesha Spenta has multiple information theory uses: spacetime physics, personality, and spiritual realms.

Betty himself doesn't see atheists having any inherent problem for the afterlife other than whatever the effect of finding one is. This can happen to theists too.
 
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One interesting thing about Zoroaster's Amesha Spenta structure is the "bad" vs "good" duality. On a Sephirot plot this would be the left vs right "restriction" vs "expansion" sides. The up vs down for the sephirot are spiritual vs physical aka it's the Seven Heavens/Amesha Spenta/Chakra structure from inanimate up to Ein Sof/Zurvan/Brahman. For the "good" vs "bad" structure there is this from my favorite channeling group:

quote:
quote:
It is safe to conclude that Christianity is a target of attempts to destroy and silence it. At the moment it is hard to see how that is going to change. One can always hope the spirit of Christianity will survive in some form.


I hope so too. What we are doing here might be one of the ways that helps the spirit of Christianity to survive.

What I realized since this last session is that the attempt to destroy Christianity: the burial of Julius Caesar legacy, the distortion of Paul teaching, the positive spinning of the Templars story, the birth of Protestantism, the rise of the secular religion, etc. are only part of larger drama/opposition.

This opposition was there before Christianity, it is mentioned by the Cs, Paul, Marcion: it is law vs. love. It was already at the core of Zoroaster reforms 6,000 years ago, it was very probably at the core of the Son of the Law vs. the Sons of Belial (alluded by Cayce) in Atlantean times.

This law vs. love duality is so lasting because it is a close reflection of the STO vs. STS dual nature of the Universe, OSIT.


As for entheogens, Zoroaster's reforms included not liking the ritualistic aka law-bound use of entheogens; it had morphed from something of love (health) to something of law (rituals). Here are three people from my channeling group talking about entheogens on their Youtube health show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG4fIgP7esU

To be a Zoroaster, Paul, or Leary, it certainly helps to be as healthy as possible. Being healthy however does not guarantee that you can see things in the way that a Zoroaster, Paul, or Leary did.
 
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Back in the USA after long long flights!
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
Back in the USA after long long flights!


Welcome home!

Now where's that Allan? He hasn't checked in for a while...


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So why were my living room and bedroom clocks an hour ahead of the computer clock and the cable TV listings display clocks? Huh. Smile-Big   :D
 
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Originally posted by Henry J:
So why were my living room and bedroom clocks an hour ahead of the computer clock and the cable TV listings display clocks? Huh. Smile-Big   :D


Mine were all blinking!
 
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So it's not about time, it's about power?
 
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Yep, except for the battery operated! I just noticed one of those that’s wrong!
 
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Now where's that Allan? He hasn't checked in for a while...

Desperately trying to get his finger out. Beginning to wonder if I have passed my use-by date.

While The Morning of the Magicians was seriously outdated, it did raise valuable points. My version was printed in 2009, but I doubt it was updated from the 1960 original French version.

Well worth a read.

Also finished Charles Pellegrino's Return to Sodom and Gomorrah: Bible stories from Archaeologists. He talks with any number of important people, including the likes of Stephen Hawking, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, many of whom he regards as friends. Imagine my absolute delight when he recalls Clarke talking about God and Hawking joins in with the comment that for him the word God means the same as it did for Einstein; "It is really the reason why the universe is, as it is, and why the universe exists at all."

Naturally enough, as you'd expect, a big smile lightened up my face. That was nothing more than a rewording of something I explored here a while back: right from when we started to speak, we made up (letter-) sounds into words and applied a definition which suited us at the time

We'll never know for sure what definition our ancestors gave to the words they used to explain the unknown, but at least now we have a definition we can use to explore the God concept without being held back by the definitions our ancestors used.
 
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Originally posted by Allan:
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Now where's that Allan? He hasn't checked in for a while...

Desperately trying to get his finger out. Beginning to wonder if I have passed my use-by date.

While The Morning of the Magicians was seriously outdated, it did raise valuable points. My version was printed in 2009, but I doubt it was updated from the 1960 original French version.

Well worth a read.

Also finished Charles Pellegrino's Return to Sodom and Gomorrah: Bible stories from Archaeologists. He talks with any number of important people, including the likes of Stephen Hawking, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, many of whom he regards as friends. Imagine my absolute delight when he recalls Clarke talking about God and Hawking joins in with the comment that for him the word God means the same as it did for Einstein; "It is really the reason why the universe is, as it is, and why the universe exists at all."

Naturally enough, as you'd expect, a big smile lightened up my face. That was nothing more than a rewording of something I explored here a while back: right from when we started to speak, we made up (letter-) sounds into words and applied a definition which suited us at the time

We'll never know for sure what definition our ancestors gave to the words they used to explain the unknown, but at least now we have a definition we can use to explore the God concept without being held back by the definitions our ancestors used.

Interesting.

Two weeks ago..or so, I came upon a video concerning a study done on NDEs. Been trying to find it again without much luck since I came upon it while looking for something else entirely, and now I don't even remember what that was.

It was a fabulous video without all the 'fantastic stories' of individual experiences, simply the conclusions reached from expansive studies of all that had been written concerning NDEs.

What struck a chord with me was the overall notion of what 'God' is, and what 'heaven' is - since it pretty much affirmed what my contemplations on the subject had already essentially determined, but with a couple of surprises that also make a good bit of sense to me.

What started me down that path was personal contemplation of 1 Corinthians 15:28 ...then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. The part in bold was the subject of my contemplation. That was when it was revealed that all things 'seen and unseen' exists within God. It was also when I determined that 'heaven is not a place'...it is a dimension or realm - or another state of 'being' that exists alongside our concept of space and time.

I'm going to keep searching for that video because I believe you would greatly appreciate it. I don't ever recall concerning myself with 'death' but after I had my first 'encounter' I have had no fear of it at all. Not to mention that I never fully bought into the concept that either Jews or Christians teach as the 'Biblical' concept of 'God'. But then, both tend to take the words literally. Yet I can also see why a limited vocabulary would have confined the description of God in those terms.

Concepts like Daniel 7:10 “A river of fire was flowing, and coming out from before Him; thousands upon thousands were attending Him, and myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; the court sat, and the books were opened" and Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" take on a very different meaning from that which the 'literalists' take it to mean. IOW, it's all good, and for the good of all, since we are all One.

I'll keep looking...


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As for:
quote:
Desperately trying to get his finger out. Beginning to wonder if I have passed my use-by date.

Don't be so hard on yourself. We are all wearing out...it is the natural course of things that will bring us to a higher place.


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My grandmother used to say “this body’s just plum wore out!” I’m beginning to better understand that!
 
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Originally posted by Reed N D Dark:
My grandmother used to say “this body’s just plum wore out!” I’m beginning to better understand that!

You and me both...


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Had a bit of an issue trying to keep my responses in proportion, bluelamp, which was one reason for my slow response. You'll see what I mean as I ramble on.

quote:
Originally posted by bluelamp:
It is safe to conclude that Christianity is a target of attempts to destroy and silence it. At the moment it is hard to see how that is going to change. One can always hope the spirit of Christianity will survive in some form.
I hope so too. What we are doing here might be one of the ways that helps the spirit of Christianity to survive.

Return to Sodom and Gomorrah strongly reinforced my conviction that Judaeo-Christianity has to go. I'm not doubting its positive aspects, however it is the most blood-soaked religion I know of. The Semitic family descendants of Abraham have been warring for thousands of years, and even the most optimistic can not see any end to it today. I have yet to find any other deity, male or female, which ordered its followers to perform repeated genocides.

quote:
This law vs. love duality is so lasting because it is a close reflection of the STO vs. STS dual nature of the Universe, OSIT.


That is a cop-out imposed on us by the history of Judaeo-Christianity, especially after Zarathustra's Angra Mainyu was superimposed on Judaism's ha-satan, which then became the Christian Devil and the Judaic Samael.

For tens of thousands of years, the First Australians lived in relative harmony. They had their wars, of course, however they also had found ways of resolving their disputes with far less bloodshed. Unlike the family Semites, they had two totally different people-types, the gracile and the robust, so, following this line, had far more excuse for trying to wipe out the other. We ignore their culture at great cost to ourselves.
https://www.pnas.org/content/98/2/537.

quote:
As for entheogens, Zoroaster's reforms included not liking the ritualistic aka law-bound use of entheogens; it had morphed from something of love (health) to something of law (rituals). Here are three people from my channeling group talking about entheogens on their Youtube health show:


Boy, did that one get me going. Spitting chips, I had to take a break, calm myself down, and have a rethink to take me to a more understanding position. Apart from anything else, until Christianity wiped out the Greek Mystery Religions they had continued for millennia without any such problems. I'll save it for later, however any number of initiates such as Pythagoras had been on entheogens, just like Steve Jobs and Francis Crick. What have we lost thanks to orthodox scientific and religious thinking?

Because they have no personal experience of entheogens, your panel simply were out of their depth. Even though they mentioned Johns Hopkins' psilocybin experiments, they barely scraped the surface. No mention of john hopkins psychedelic research playlist, which as I see it totally destroys all their arguments.

As you know, I am following two experiments in particular, one from 2006 which changed the lives of most of their subjects, and the ongoing one with rabbis, Protestants and Catholics including Orthodox Christians, and Buddhists.
https://www.theguardian.com/sc...redient-for-science: “Their instruction is to go within and collect experiences,” Richards said, after presenting his work at the Breaking Convention conference in London this month. “So far everyone incredibly values their experience. No one has been confused or upset or regrets doing it.”

Then there is this quote: "There is also a suggestion that after their psychedelic journey, the leaders’ notions of religion shifted away from the sectarian towards something more universal. “They get a greater appreciation for other world religions. Other ways up the mountain, if you will,” said Richards.
“In these transcendental states of consciousness, people seem to get to levels of consciousness that seem universal,” he added. “So a good rabbi can encounter the Buddha within him.”

Synchronicity Rules OK

That is the same conclusion reached by Pellegrino's associates, who included Jesuits priests, some of whom stated they were agnostics.

Had similar problems with your earlier post on Betty. As you know, I've lost a site in which a neuropsychologist explored the same type of experiences and came up with totally different interpretations.

I could go on forever:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry...fTu8VyPwJFteGvR97L2P
This of course is a highly simplified view of what to expect at and soon after death. It does not say that there is no God, only that God no more interferes in our lives over there than here on earth. Natural laws govern the afterworld just as surely as they do earth. But the Lawgiver does not make the scene in either world.

Long ago, I started to think about this deity which created our universe.

The Biblical scholars had no idea of the extent of this universe, so I had to wonder why any Creator Deity would focus on just one life form, when we already know there are close solar systems which conceivably (pun unintended) have their own Vulcans, Romulans, Klingons, and even Ferengis. Does this Creator Deity treat them all the same way, send them the same messianic message?

(Love this one: The name Ferengi was coined based on the Persian term Ferenghi, used throughout Asia (compare older Feringhee), meaning "foreigners" or "Europeans".
Ferengi - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Ferengi)

Pellegrino's book says the Bible scholars, for obvious reasons, eliminated the then-common knowledge that our world was ancient, and imposed their own concept that had been created just a few thousands of years earlier., The Egyptians and the Hindus had no such concept.
 
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Originally posted by That JR Thang:
Don't be so hard on yourself. We are all wearing out...it is the natural course of things that will bring us to a higher place.


Taking a bit of getting used to. I am reminded of Mum, who had had enough and was ready to go long before this happened.

Neither she nor I had any fear of death.
 
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Originally posted by Allan:
Had a bit of an issue trying to keep my responses in proportion, bluelamp, which was one reason for my slow response. You'll see what I mean as I ramble on.
I've always liked a slow pace on forums; if it gets to be like chat rooms or instant messenger, I couldn't keep up even in my younger days.


quote:
Return to Sodom and Gomorrah strongly reinforced my conviction that Judaeo-Christianity has to go. I'm not doubting its positive aspects, however it is the most blood-soaked religion I know of. The Semitic family descendants of Abraham have been warring for thousands of years, and even the most optimistic can not see any end to it today. I have yet to find any other deity, male or female, which ordered its followers to perform repeated genocides.
Yeah in Hellenistic times there were Egyptian histories that made the Jews look bad so the Hellenistic Jews did their own history that made the Egyptians look bad and in doing so did things like kick out Asherah and kind of turn Yahweh into the Egyptian evil god Seth on steroids.

quote:
That is a cop-out imposed on us by the history of Judaeo-Christianity, especially after Zarathustra's Angra Mainyu was superimposed on Judaism's ha-satan, which then became the Christian Devil and the Judaic Samael.
Since Zoroaster's reforms had it right, I tend to think it was a good cop-out other than Yahweh ending up like the Pauline Gnostics said as the demiurge/Seth/Angra Mainyu.

quote:
For tens of thousands of years, the First Australians lived in relative harmony. They had their wars, of course, however they also had found ways of resolving their disputes with far less bloodshed. Unlike the family Semites, they had two totally different people-types, the gracile and the robust, so, following this line, had far more excuse for trying to wipe out the other. We ignore their culture at great cost to ourselves.

The gods/angels are supposedly much more polarized than us so we can do better or worse at times. I could see more isolated groups getting better or worse than average. The isolated group near the Tunguska meteor explosion apparently isn't so nice since the explosion was seen as a curse one clan's Shaman put on another clan.

quote:
Apart from anything else, until Christianity wiped out the Greek Mystery Religions they had continued for millennia without any such problems. I'll save it for later, however any number of initiates such as Pythagoras had been on entheogens, just like Steve Jobs and Francis Crick. What have we lost thanks to orthodox scientific and religious thinking?
Not all the mystery religions were overly good as in this Invocation of Dionysus:

quote:
I call upon loud-roaring and revelling Dionysus, primeval, double-natured, thrice-born, Bacchic lord, wild, ineffable, secretive, two-horned and two-shaped. Ivy-covered, bull-faced, warlike, howling, pure, You take raw flesh, you have feasts, wrapt in foliage, decked with grape clusters. Resourceful Eubouleus, immortal god sired by Zeus When he mated with Persephone in unspeakable union. Hearken to my voice, O blessed one, and with your fair-girdled nymphs breathe on me in a spirit of perfect agape".


Timothy Leary had a great worldview and a great attitude towards death via entheogens but it's not like he had to keep using them or he would lose his worldview. The good effects seem rather permanent. No need to keep doing it a lot and risk a brain tumor like Terence McKenna got.

quote:
Then there is this quote: "There is also a suggestion that after their psychedelic journey, the leaders’ notions of religion shifted away from the sectarian towards something more universal. “They get a greater appreciation for other world religions. Other ways up the mountain, if you will,” said Richards.
“In these transcendental states of consciousness, people seem to get to levels of consciousness that seem universal,” he added. “So a good rabbi can encounter the Buddha within him.”
You can relate Eastern and Western religions quite easily via Zoroaster too.

quote:
Long ago, I started to think about this deity which created our universe.

The Biblical scholars had no idea of the extent of this universe, so I had to wonder why any Creator Deity would focus on just one life form, when we already know there are close solar systems which conceivably (pun unintended) have their own Vulcans, Romulans, Klingons, and even Ferengis. Does this Creator Deity treat them all the same way, send them the same messianic message?
The Creator (Brahman/Ein Sof/Zurvan) isn't who is speaking via channeling; it's at best the angel of god (and the Bible at times seems to recognize this). So why would an angel of god be interested in us? Gurdieff's 4th Way might say you are connecting to your higher centers aka the angel of God you connect to is literally yourself in a possible future. It would be one of Betty's got lighter entities in the afterlife.

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Pellegrino's book says the Bible scholars, for obvious reasons, eliminated the then-common knowledge that our world was ancient, and imposed their own concept that had been created just a few thousands of years earlier. The Egyptians and the Hindus had no such concept.
Yeah Hellenistic Jewish history writers kind of created Jewish heroes. Abraham probably does represent a historic hero with Zoroaster-like ideas with some connection to an angel of God and human flaws but not a Jewish hero.
 
Posts: 1149 | Location: Tucson, AZ | Mbr Since: 04-23-2009Report This Post
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I just posted this note in my channeling group forum (to the owner) and it's Zoroaster/Egypt/Abraham related so I'll repost here:

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Laura said:
It might be helpful to find and lay out the myths the seem to go with Zoroastrianism. Especially about the cow and its possible relation to what itellsya mentioned regarding Çatalhöyük with its cow horns etc. Also, that may expose the primal myth of the death of the bull and how it then gave "birth" to the natural world which is represented in the Mithra Tauroctony iconography. Apparently, this was behind the paleolithic cave paintings, then, after the "wars", a warrior society emerged and things got wild for a bit - some of the Dionysian effects - and then, Zoroaster came along to reform the religion that had gone so far astray by trying to bring it back to its origins somewhat, though certainly introducing and justifying new features.

That primal myth relates moon deities to bull/cattle deities and that relationship seems to get around and fits with the Cs mentioning of Hittite moon worshipers. Even when those Hittite Zoroastrians of sorts (Sarah/Nefertiti and Abraham/Ay) are in Egypt, the bull/cattle/moon deity idea is there via Atum who had a bull manifestation (Mnevis) that even Akhenaten liked. Wikipedia says that when the son of Atum (Khonsu) "caused the crescent moon to shine, women conceived, cattle became fertile, and all nostrils and every throat was filled with fresh air."

I liked your idea of Ay fitting best with the Cs idea of a Hittite Abraham. Ay seemed to be into Min-Amun. From Wikipedia: "By the New Kingdom he was also fused with Amun in the form of Min-Amun, who was also the serpent Irta, a kamutef (the "bull of his mother" - aka father of his own mother as well as her son)... Min's shrine was crowned with a pair of bull horns." Seems the bull deity has lost the moon deity in favor of kind of being of sorts the creator and created.
 
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